Does Hillery have "IT"? (Long question)

[critter]

We all know that Bill Clinton WAS NOT a friend of the Second Ammendment. We also have reason to think that Hillery will be at least as bad or worse. In the vein of "know thine enemy", I have a question for you.

Whatever you say or think about Bill Clinton, he was a powerful man even outside the fact that he as a Democrat and president. Slick Willie had almost the total support of the Dem's. Many were Dem's who voted that way 'cause muh granpaw did till he died and I will too! He got a lot of support from the large labor unions. He was supported by many of the minorities of various flavors to which he pandered. He got a lot of votes from 'lil ole ladies' who thought he was 'pretty'. He got a lot of votes due to his glib speech making abilities.

Most of all, though, Old Bill had a political "MACHINE". He had a loose cadre of hangers-on that he had garnered throughout his long political career who hitched their wagon to his star and would do most anything to assure his success. They raised money (in legal, slightly shady, under the table, probably illegal ways, outside the US, etc), they got him votes the same way, they controlled the liberal media (and/or made them part of the machine) so that the voters heard mostly what they wanted them to hear, they did all they could to discredit anybody who opposed Bill in any way, they did all they could to protect Bill from any scandals in which he was neck deep, and, finally, some say they even resorted to blackmail and possibly murder. Such was the "Slick Willie Machine".

Pore old "Al-the-bore-Gore" had support of many Dem's and a lot of others common to those who supported Bill, but he DID NOT HAVE "THE MACHINE"!

The question is: IF Horrible Hillery decides to run for the Dem nomination for President, will she have access to the same "MACHINE" that Bill had before her?

We need to decide because she is NOT a friend of ours and the second ammendment but a super-liberal, world-wide-government, 'you are government property', cradle-to-grave government control type person who would be a devistation to the USA second to none I believe.

Does he have "IT"?

 

[Preacherman]

I think the "political machines" exist independently of any particular candidate. They're constantly looking out for their own best interests, and will "hitch their wagon to the star" of any candidate that offers them the best return for their support. I think if Hillary decides to run, she'll have to sell herself to the "machines" as being the best choice for them to pursue their own interests by providing her with support - just as a Republican candidate will have to do the same with his/her own party's "machines".

 

[beerslurpy]

Bill Clinton didnt happen in a vacuum and he didnt create his political machine from the ether through force of will. Be careful not to confuse the various leftist political organizations that will support Hillary (in hopes of payback when she is elected) with the organization that is connected directly to her and Bill.

If anything, Bill's machine is very much the creation of his wife, who is a far better organizer. Bill was horribly disorganized until Hillary got control of his campaign for governor way back in the day. Hillary is sort of the Spock to Bill's Kirk. Hillary lacks Bill's people skills and loveable personality, so expect her to rely on Bill to handle most of the public relations when she runs. Bill will do his best to give Hilllary the urban black and southern vote while Hillary goes for the intellectual, urban and housewife vote. I predict this will be unsuccessful as long as the republicans can continue to put on a show like they did in 2004. Rove is going to be very hard to beat. The Clintons are just too tarnished from the previous 8 years and if she runs it will be very ugly.

Hillary will continue to espouse social-democratic ideology until she realizes that it can no longer win elections for her. The problem is that she has to transition in a manner than doesnt sound contrived and doesnt endanger her grip on the blue states- otherwise she will end up like Mondale or Dukakis. Remember that she wants to win- she is a pragmatist rather than an idealist. I strongly suspect that Bill's realization that gun control cost Gore the 2000 election came from Hillary, not from himself. So she knows. The problem is that she cant move the Democratic party to the right of where it currently is without the cooperation of the party leadership. The Democrats may take another 10-15 years to sort this one out.

 

[Werewolf]

Does she have "IT"?

YEP!

Absolutely. If Mrs. Clinton does decide to run - barring some unforseen happenstance that destroys her reputation - she will be the next President of the United States.

A lot of women will vote for her just because she's a woman. A whole lot of folks will vote for her because her last name is Clinton. Anyone who claims to be a member of the Democratic party will vote for her because she's a Democrat. Furthermore she is currently working very, very hard to convince the electorate that she has moved right and is becoming more moderate. That will gain her the votes of some RINO's (as an aside I believe that Bill did move to the right while president - maybe the process of being involved in how the real world works caused the move - it is possible that Hillary saw the same things Bill did and is moving right for real). She may be a liberal but she's no northeastern liberal (NY Senator not withstanding) and can claim the South as her historical Political Stomping grounds and that will earn her votes that would normally go to the repugnicans too.

There's a lot of overlap there but in my estimation she could pull down well over 55% and maybe 60% of the popular vote.

AND the biggest issue of all that will lead to her becoming Prez is that the republicans have no one with the experience, name recognition or the stature to stand against her. I don't believe that even Condoleeza Rice could beat her (America's come a long way but reality tells me it isn't ready to have a black President who happens to be a woman and a conservative at that). In addition Ms. Rice has never held an elected office and that's a big strike against her even if America is ready to have a black, woman president.

The odds are IMO that in 2008 America will elect Mrs Clinto. Our only hope in that event is if the repugnicans retain control of the house and senate.

To paraphrase Standing Wolf:

America is stupid enough to elect that creature...

 

[2nd Amendment]

Let's cut to the ugly chase: Women will vote for her en masse. Women who have never voted before will vote for her. Minorities will vote for her. They'll come out in droves just to vote for her. She will own the femal and minority(black) vote in this country and that is all she needs to win. The equation really is that simple.

Now figure the Repubs run McVain or Guilliani or some other useless incompetent of their ilk. Not only does Hitlery get the women and minorities but solid Repubs stay home or vote third party.

The Republican party either runs Dr Rice in 2008 or else. That's the only chance of splitting the female and minority vote and I don't want to hear about this silly "she has no experience" crap. if that's what you think then by all means, don't vote for her. For most Americans is a non-issue. For most(PC, TV oriented, sound-byte trained, beer-swilling, sports watching, public school graduated) Americans it's going to be about race and gender and then the usual media-created hot-button issues. That's reality, work within it.

That or hope like hell someone digs some really good dirt on that Clinton creature and makes it stick between now and then.

 

[beerslurpy]

Rice wont get the minority vote if blacks still listen to Clinton/Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton/Farakhaaan. They are convinced that any black who doesnt love welfare is an uncle tom.

Mark my words.

Clarence Thomas should be seen as one of the role models for black America, but black people cant say enough bad things about him given the first opportunity.

 

[2nd Amendment]

Rice would split the female vote, though. And even in a worst case scenerio she'd siphon off some of the minority vote. Add in the fact Repubs would go out of their way to vote just to make a statement AND consider certain segments of voters; gun owners, anti-infanticide forces, white males in general would vote in overwhelming numbers against Hillary if the opponent is even slightly palatable and that is, probably, enough.

For those still determined Rice won't/can't run you better find another female and/or black between now and then for the Repubs to run. That or dig up, and make stick, that dirt I hoped for earlier. If Hillary remains (nominally)"clean" and the Repub's candidate is a white establishment male you can kiss the 2008 election, and most of what defines the US as a free country, goodbye.

 

[beerslurpy]

All you have to do is sour people on Bill/Hillary. Bush was no great candidate, but enough people got a bad taste in their mouth about Kerry that Bush was able to win.

Dont read to much into the individual qualifications of each candidate. This is about ideas as much as it is about charisma or experience.

The republicans do have to find someone though.

 

[jfh]

Let's cut to the ugly chase: Women will vote for her en masse. Women who have never voted before will vote for her. Minorities will vote for her. They'll come out in droves just to vote for her. She will own the femal and minority(black) vote in this country and that is all she needs to win. The equation really is that simple.​

Not only that, but she can get a Midwestern vote--she is, after all, from 'Chicago.'

The Republicans will have put up an "information machine" that will put the Swift Boat Vets' campaign to shame. IMO, a real education campaign on her history can have an impact. You can go all the way back to her graduation speech at Wellesley--but I think it's a hard sell.

And if the Religious Right is perceived to have a dominant impact in the Republican machine, there are millions of UMC leading-edge Baby Boomers ready to desert. These are not RINOs, but they vote on the issues--and for them, non-religion is the position for government to be in, not running back to the Capitol to vote for 'life,' a la the Shiavo debacle.

 

[AZRickD]

H-Clinton has some major baggage. She will invigorate the GOP base and donators at the same time she inflames the unions for her former position as a member of the Walmart Board of Directors.

On the GOP side, don't count on Rice - she was an Shermanesque as humanly possible with Tim Russert. He asked her repeatedly and she said "no" each time. Leftwinger-Tim had a look of relief on his face when he got that response.

Instead, look to Blackwell, Secretary of State from Ohio in the VP slot. He's the guy who "gave Ohio to Bush" last fall, so look to the Demos to villify him as an "Uncle Tom" or whatever the current term for not staying "on the plantation" is... oh yeah, "he's not black enough."

Word is he could serve as #2 man on the ticket with current Senator, former Governor, George Allen of Virginia (1994-1998)

Just one angle.

Rick

 

[boofus]

"We are going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good"

That says all I need to know about Hillary. I hope the repugs run Condi in 2008.

 

[thorn726]

my mom got to meet Hillary, and was unimpressed- Hillary was rude and very obviuosly out to make herself look good for media. i dont think she has it

 

[Rebar]

She can and will get the nomination. It's up to the republicans to nominate and run a top-notch candidate and campaign, failing that Hillary will win.

A wildcard in the equation is McCain. He'll never get the republican nomination, not now. Which means there's a real possibility that he'll run as an independent. This will assure a Hillary win, no matter who runs on the republican side.

 

[beerslurpy]

George Allen. Hmm. His record isnt exactly overflowing with information. GOA has him rated as a C. His social issues stances seem pure Falwell. He isnt exactly the second coming of Ron Paul.

I'm sure flyover country will love him.

Do any VA posters have anything to say about his time as a governor?

 

[AZRickD]

Yeah, I don't think George Allen will be our best buddy, but likely not as bad as Clinton or even McCain. Blackwell on the other hand is said to be quite pro-RKBA (no research done on my part).

Rick

 

[Standing Wolf]

IF Horrible Hillery decides to run for the Dem nomination for President, will she have access to the same "MACHINE" that Bill had before her?

Yep—and she's running.

It's lately occurred to me that if the Republicans in Congress continue to stumble over their own big feet and/or hide under their beds at every opportunity, the odds on America electing Mrs. Snopes Clinton must necessarily rise.

Lessons tend to be repeated until they're mastered.

 

[Monkeyleg]

I believe the "Bill" machine is alive and well. The Democrat lineup for the 2004 presidential race was filled with losers. There were far better candidates than Kerry, but the Clintons didn't want the Dem's to win.

The Republicans should be grooming a candidate now, but I don't see it happening. Newt Gingrich is obviously setting himself up to run, but he'll have as much of a chance as Alan Keyes. Hillary would pulverize him.

I hate to repeat myself, but I believe there's a way for Dr. Rice to get the elected office experience she needs: have Dick Cheney resign next year due to health problems, and GW appoint Rice as VP.

Hillary has been working very hard at moving to the middle, and her negatives are declining. She has more star power than Schwarzenneger did, and there isn't a Republican on the scene at the moment who can match her. Except Rice.

 

[Shooter973]

Does Hillary have "IT"?

Yes Hillary does have "IT"........ But if she would go to the Congressional Free Medical Clinic she could get a shot or two and get rid of "IT".

 

[Sean Smith]

If Hillary runs she will get all the black and female votes by default, barring any extreme unforseen stupidity on her part of course. That puts her a long way towards winning right off the bat.

I do think she is beatable, but it will take a good Republican candidate, or her self-destructing, to cause it. She really doesn't have any charisma; in fact, she inspires viscreal unease in people who aren't even opposed to her political positions. And she hasn't really accomplished squat in the Senate. Her support comes from being a woman named Clinton, not her tangible accomplishments or outstanding likability. And somehow I think that a clever campaign could provoke her into emotionally self-destructing... not because she's a woman, but because she's Hillary Clinton.

 

[makanut]

As another poster indicated, Condi would split the women's vote, and siphon off a few black votes. I'm afraid a lot of women would vote for Hillary just because she's a woman, sort of. Condi is probably our best bet to attempt to neutralize Hillary's "star power".

Here's something to consider: Hillary would do very, very poorly among white, male voters; much worse than Kerry did in 2004. The big problem is that Hillary is so unlikeable; she comes off as the mother-in-law from hell. What a b***h! The likeability factor was detrimental for Kerry, and all the goose hunting, beer drinking and talking about "Lambert Field" could not change that. All the moving to the middle may not help Hillary all that much, if Hillary is even less likeable than Kerry (a safe assumption).

 

[Standing Wolf]

...I believe there's a way for Dr. Rice to get the elected office experience she needs: have Dick Cheney resign next year due to health problems, and GW appoint Rice as VP.

Being appointed to an elected office doesn't quite make the grade.

Frankly, I think we're suffering from a surfeit of experienced politicians.

 

[beerslurpy]

What about Delay? Assuming he beats his current troubles, what is the likelihood that he would run? He is A ranked by GOA and he played naughty tricks to keep the AWB off the table in 2004.

 

[lee n. field]

 

[2nd Amendment]

What color is Delay? What gender is, umm...he? Oh yeah? Write his honky chauvinist ass off.

 

[Rebar]

You all don't seem very concered over McCain running a 3rd party campaign. Need I remind that Bill Clinton only won his first term, because Ross Perot siphoned off enough votes from Bush Sr.?

It could be history repeating itself come 2008.