Does this mean I have to give back my guns?

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skarr

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On the NICS section of the FBIs website it says:

Federal Categories of Persons Prohibited From Receiving

A person who has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year or any state offense classified by the state as a misdemeanor and is punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years.

I was granted PBJ and successfully completed probation. I'm eligible for expungement next year. Are they gonna swat me down if I want to buy myself a birthday present? I really want to pick up a gas piston carbine now in case the tinfoil hat guys were right about next year.
 
I think you'll be okay, assuming that you've completed your probation. If you are still on probation, I imagine that the terms of your probation would probably prevent you from having a firearm, though that may not be absolute either.

I can't say that I'm very familiar with the concept of "probation before judgement", but I believe the jist of the system is that you won't actually have any conviction if you've successfully completed the probationary period. In other words, I think PBJ means that there was no judgement (ie: guilty) against you. I also believe that PBJ is usually only applied to minor crimes, and most such crimes would not turn you into a prohibited person. I've heard of this concept before, but I've never dealt with it firsthand, and I'm not sure if we even do anything like PBJ here in Colorado.

Of course, you mention being eligible for expungement next year, which makes me wonder if you are talking about some sort of conviction you received. Or, at the very least, that you need to do something else to completely remove this action from your record. Nevertheless, I still believe that a PBJ is designed to keep you free of an actual criminal conviction.

Can you provide us with any more information on this? What was the nature of the offense for which you served probation? Were you convicted of this crime under your state's laws? If you were convicted of a crime, then you need to look at the type of crime to see if it would prohibit you from owning a firearm (example: any felony, or a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence).
 
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Skarr,
You need legal advice, from a lawyer, DA, and such. Internet speculation is just that.
I dont know your state but in some PBJ is called continued without a finding subject to completion of certain conditions, upon completion the case is dismissed,
Talk to an atty my friend.
 
I successfully completed my probation last year less $1500. I could have used that for a semester of community college. I live in Maryland where PBJ means... upon successful completion of issued probation, I am no longer charged with the crime. However the record of my conviction still stands. Even if I was found innocent a conviction would stand. I can file for an expungement, therefore removing my conviction from state and federal record.

I was convicted of a misdemeanor drug possession. It is my understanding that I am no longer charged with this, however my conviction still shows up in to the public. I am not, nor have I ever been a drug addict, I simply took the loyalty thing too far and took a charge for a friend... not that the court or the feds care.

Does that help?

I guess basically what I'm trying to ask is: will NICS say no if my charge is striked out but the conviction is still there?
 
misdemeanor drug possession is not a felony in most states.... so you should be okay either way.

the whole process you are going through sounds totally bogus and ridiculous to me... but then in the long run it's a hell of a lot better than going to jail.

(Please let's not debate drug laws/policy here. Thanks.)
 
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Not a lawyer, but wouldn't an expunged record wipe the slate clean as if the conviction never existed?
 
So what did I miss what may happen next year?
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Martial law, primers expire, repeal the Second Amendment... take your pick but let's not go down that road please :)

There is always some doom and gloom over the horizon being predicted.
 
Two "big" events on the horizon; some Christians believe that the world will end on May 21, 2011; and then there's the Maya/Aztec/Inca end-or-the-world in 2012.
Lots of good jobs and some nice real estate (not to mention lots of firearms) would become available if the believers of those two events just disappeared and left all their stuff to us "normal" gun nuts.
 
skarr :...I live in Maryland where PBJ means... upon successful completion of issued probation, I am no longer charged with the crime.
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Right, because you are charged first, you accepted "deferred adjudication" in lieu of a trial.


However the record of my conviction still stands. Even if I was found innocent a conviction would stand. I can file for an expungement, therefore removing my conviction from state and federal record.
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Uh........if you were found innocent there is no conviction.:scrutiny:

I don't think you have fully grasped what is your actual situation. You need to contact the attorney that defended you to see if you will be able to have your gun rights restored.
 
I'm sorry but isn't an illegal drug conviction, in and of itself a predicate disqualification?
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Oddly enough it seems to only be about CURRENT use, not past. From the 4473:

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Click to expand...

Nothing about "have you ever been". The actual law mirrors that present tense language.
 
Concerning Probation Before Judgment in Maryland:

Maryland Code § 6-220
(b)(1) When a defendant pleads guilty or nolo contendere or is found guilty of a crime, a court may stay the entering of judgment, defer further proceedings, and place the defendant on probation subject to reasonable conditions ...
(g)(1) On fulfillment of the conditions of probation, the court shall discharge the defendant from probation.
(g)(3) Discharge of a defendant under this section shall be without judgment of conviction and is not a conviction for the purpose of any disqualification or disability imposed by law because of conviction of a crime.
Click to expand...

It appears that discharge from PBJ means that there was never a conviction; expungement wipes away any record that a person was even charged with a crime.
 
Yo Mama, fabulous name if I say so myself, that was a joke, I guess you didn't get it. Paranoia is everybody that went out and bought 5000 rounds of 7.62x39 just because they heard Obama was a presidential candidate. Thanks for the help by the way...

Tom, actually I believe you are correct, I apologize for that oversight on my part. I plead guilty, that's why I got PBJ in the first place. I plead guilty because it is nearly impossible to win a case in the county I was convicted in. They thrive upon these petty drug convictions. I figured, either pay $3000 for an attorney who may not get me off, or half that for probation costs. Simply put, people do not win cases against the state around here. Funny thing is, the people I know that went to school with the person who arrested me said he was a pothead.

gc70 you are correct about expungement thanks for the code quote by the way. 6-220 g3 seems to mean that the conviction stands but won't be enough to disqualify me from purchasing a firearm. However, discharge from PBJ still leaves a conviction out there. But the thing is, even after completing probation, there is no automatic expungement. For instance, certain ritzy jobs have turned me down because of my conviction.

Let me rephrase my question. If I try to go purchase a handgun or other "regulated" weapon as Maryland law refers to it as, will NICS bat me down? I ask you all because I figure some of you are FFL holders or have experience with this in the past.

Another question is, if NICS tells the feds to say no to my inquiry, is there some kind of trouble I could get in for trying to make a purchase? Thanks for the responses everyone.
 
I'm not sure about Maryland but in Washington if your convicted of a crime, the judge will tell you at sentencing if your gun rights are removed. Your rights will NOT be re-enstated automatically when the case is closed or when your probation is over. You have to actually petition the courts to get your gun rights back but they won't even consider it for 7 years. Expungment does wipe the slate clean but the courts here won't even consider looking at it until 7 years has passed.

As I said that's Washington & yes I know this from experience. I had to jump through a lot of hoops to get my rights back. It was hell. The best advice you have been given here by other members is seek the advice of an attorney. Look in the phone book & make some calls. You will eventually get lucky & find one that will tell you where you stand free of charge. I'd say if your worried about being legal, I'd make the calls & ask the right people to stay legal. The last thing you need is to get "I think so. You should be fine" advice off an Internet forum that may be wrong & get convicted of another crime.

My .02
 
skarr said:
gc70 you are correct about expungement thanks for the code quote by the way. 6-220 g3 seems to mean that the conviction stands but won't be enough to disqualify me from purchasing a firearm. However, discharge from PBJ still leaves a conviction out there. But the thing is, even after completing probation, there is no automatic expungement. For instance, certain ritzy jobs have turned me down because of my conviction.
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The way the law reads (and several different articles by Maryland lawyers seem to agree), PBJ delays judgment. Here is what I think: You were arrested, charged, and plead guilty, but the court did not render a judgment pending the outcome of your probation. You completed your probation and were discharged "without judgment of conviction" - in short, you are not convicted and the charges were essentially dropped. Now, you need to get the record of your arrest and charges expunged.

skarr, you need to talk to a Maryland lawyer because this issue is about a lot more than just gun rights. As you noted, this is affecting your employment. It is critical that you know how to properly answer questions like "Have you ever been convicted of a crime?" and "Have you ever been arrested and charged with a crime?" You must be honest when you answer that type of question, whether it is on a Form 4473 or an employment application. But you need to know whether the legally correct answer to those questions is "yes" or "no." Talk to a Maryland lawyer.
 
Nothing about "have you ever been". The actual law mirrors that present tense language
Click to expand...

I was having a conversation recently and I haven't had the time to verify this but I believe the medical definition of addiction is once you were an addict you will always be an addict. All it takes is one use and you are back in the cycle. Not entirely sure if that's how the law works or not.
 
TexasRifleman said:
Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Click to expand...
Nothing about "have you ever been". The actual law mirrors that present tense language.
Click to expand...

Yep, last night's history. :neener:
 
WeedWacker said:
I was having a conversation recently and I haven't had the time to verify this but I believe the medical definition of addiction is once you were an addict you will always be an addict. All it takes is one use and you are back in the cycle. Not entirely sure if that's how the law works or not.
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Although a nicotine addiction doesn't enter into the picture here, it's a good example of a common, medically recognized addiction. I smoked for 30 years and haven't had a puff for 26 years, but have no doubt that one cigarette is all it would take for me to pick up the habit again. Nonetheless, I would not think to answer the question "ARE you......?" in the affirmative. As far as I'm concerned, I'm convinced that I'm not addicted anymore, and let's face it, they're asking MY opinion.:)
 
TexasRifleman said:
Oddly enough it seems to only be about CURRENT use, not past. From the 4473:



Nothing about "have you ever been". The actual law mirrors that present tense language.
Click to expand...
My understanding is an illegal drug conviction NEVER becomes past tense! My take on it has nothing to do with addiction, rather a willful disregard for the law!

For instance, a DUI will almost always result in a delay(at least it does in WI)at point of purchase, while they qualify the conviction, alcohol or drugs. If its alcohol, and is not subject to felony enhancements you will ultimately get the nod to proceed, if its narcotics you're likely facing a denial...
 
Paranoia is everybody that went out and bought 5000 rounds of 7.62x39 just because they heard Obama was a presidential candidate.
Click to expand...

Wait....so now I'm the paranoid one? :neener:
 
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