Does this mean I have to give back my guns?

[skipjack]

I am an FFL in Maryland. I have had several people apply for
and receive firearms after getting PBJ. Most of them were
regulated firearms, meaning that the State Police did the background
check, which is more thorough than a NICS check.

I even had one sad sack who was disapproved for a handgun
tell the State Police that he had bought a long gun earlier in the
year. Their response...bring it to the nearest barracks and turn
it in.

As stated above, PBJ in Maryland is not a conviction.

I also saw reference above to "felony" conviction. A misdemeanor
can also get you disqualified. The key point is the amount of time
that could have been given, if convicted.

 

[Jim K]

PBJ (aka peanut butter and jelly) is probation before JUDGEMENT; the trial or plea and conviction has already happened, probation is allowed before the passing of sentence.

The problem here is that the state says the conviction is voided, but the Federal law doesn't say anything about voiding the conviction, it says "convicted."

Skarr, you may well find that the MSP will disapprove your application to buy a regulated firearm, either on their own or as a result of the NICS check (which the state police do in MD for regulated firearms). One suggestion is to write the MSP firearms section, 7751 Washington Blvd, Jessup, MD 20974 and ask. That way, you can't be accused of attempted purchase of a weapon you can't legally own. If their reply is negative, and you want to purchase firearms in MD, hire a lawyer.

Jim

 

[TexasRifleman]

Another question is, if NICS tells the feds to say no to my inquiry, is there some kind of trouble I could get in for trying to make a purchase?

Noticed no one addressed this and Jim Keenans post reminded me.

Technically it IS a crime for a prohibited person to attempt to buy a firearm. I did read somewhere recently that ATF actually prosecutes less than 1% of those, but yes it could be trouble.

 

[dogtown tom]

"PBJ" (Probation Before Judgement) or as it's called in other states "Deferred Adjudication" may or may not allow one to again acquire or possess firearms:

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf
See Exceptions to 11.c. and 11.i. (left side at the bottom of page 4)

Form 4473 (Instructions)
EXCEPTION to 11.c. and 11.i.: A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year, or who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or the person has had their civil rights (the right to vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) taken away and later restored AND (2) the person is not prohibited by the law of the jurisdiction where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 11.c or 11.i, as applicable.

Although you may have met the exceptions above, you may still experience difficulties with the FBI NICS. It may be worth your time to open a Voluntary Appeal File and get a UPIN number to avoid NICS delay's or denials.

 

[Deus Machina]

See the one above.

A deferred judgement is, technically, not a conviction. Contact a lawyer about whether it leaves you a prohibited person, though. Government paperwork can make a mess of things even if the word of law leaves it clear.

Either way, get it expunged ASAP. Outside of rare government paperwork screw-ups, it truly does make it as if the whole ordeal never happened. Unless, of course, you ever decide to get a job with an issued badge and sunglasses.

Unrelated to the gun issue but good advice: keep all the associated paperwork copied and tucked away. Expunctions require threatening to go above peoples' heads and constantly and pointedly reminding desk workers of such until it gets finished. Hire a lawyer that specializes in it, and keep your receipt.

A deferred judgment is a second chance. Learn from it, and the best to you in the future.

 

[DMF]

The OP is likely prohibited from possessing a firearm or ammunition until AFTER the conviction is expunged.

However, rather than base your decision on postings on the internet, the smart thing to do is to consult with an attorney that is knowledgeable and experienced in matters of the relevant state and federal firearms laws.

 

[skarr]

Thank you skipjack for your insight as well as for being a FFL, Jim for the MSP info, tom for that excerpt of the 4473 which for some reason I couldn't find before, and everyone else who has answered my questions. I'm going to call an attorney tomorrow and continue to keep my firearms locked and away from my house. I guess it will be up to my bow, machetes, and hands if someone wants to threaten my life at home. Either way, I guess I'll have to wait a couple more months before I can get what I want. Thanks again everyone.

 

[Davek1977]

sorry but isn't an illegal drug conviction, in and of itself a predicate disqualification? I think he has a problem....

No no problem so long as he isn't a current user, and the drug conviuction WAS NOT a felony-level offense. A misd. conviction for say, drug parapenilia or marijuana posssession, would not automatically disqualify someone (so long as possible incarceration doesn't exceed one year), but a felony conviction of any kind is a disqualifier. I know more than one person convicted of misd drug offenses years ago who have absolutely no issues with the purchase of firearms today.

My understanding is an illegal drug conviction NEVER becomes past tense!
For instance, a DUI will almost always result in a delay(at least it does in WI)at point of purchase, while they qualify the conviction, alcohol or drugs. If its alcohol, and is not subject to felony enhancements you will ultimately get the nod to proceed, if its narcotics you're likely facing a denial...

That not true everywhere, obviously. As a result of a misspent youth, I have not one but two DUI convictions (FWIW, the second was my inspiration to never take another drink, something that 6 years later I'm holding to). I have never been rejected, or even delayed, when attempting to purchase a firearm. Being convicted of a MISDEANENOR DUI or drug offense is NO BIG DEAL on the NCIS, UNLESS the offense carried a potential sentence of more than one year. In most areas, a misdeanenor carries a max incarceration of one year or less, meaning realisiticaly, it takes a crime of violence or a felony to be disqualified.

 

[gripper]

I got my LTC reinstated in Ma. In 2005 via the FLRB after a 1998 misdemeanor OUI(DUI)...and yet here in NH,agter working as a federally cleared armed contractor (contract PSO at the FAA and other installations)I got denied by the NHSP DoS on a transaction last June,lost my job and I am STILL fighting them on my own dime...my pre trial conference is Jan 26 at Hillsborough Superior Court South .Wish me luck,because I am having some interesting times....

 

[[email protected]]

I was convicted in 1978 of manufacturing Marajuana here in S.C. which I can't swear to, but was a pretty serious crime back then... I think they could have put me under the jail house for pretty much the rest of my life if they wanted to. I served no time and only had to pay a fine because of the lawyer my family 'hired', new.

According to S.C. now this is only a misdomenor conviction and I am legally able to pocess firearms and carry a concealed weapon. I suspect, but have never substantiated it, if I had a back ground check for a gun purchase, I would be denied... the good part is in S.C. if you have a CWP (concealed weapons permit) there is no back ground call in check.

So, as has been related in previous post... a conviction.. even a felony conviction does not necessarily always limit your rights to own firearms.

 

[henschman]

I am a lawyer in Oklahoma. We have a procedure very similar to your PBJ, which we call deferred sentencing.

Bottom line, even if the crime carries a possible punishment of more than 2 years (it probably doesn't even carry more than one year, being that it's a misdemeanor), once you have completed probation, it is as if judgment was never rendered and the FBI would have no grounds to deny your NICS check.

However, they apparently like to delay your approval if they see anything they consider "fishy" on your record, even if it wouldn't legally bar the transfer... but when they delay you, they have 3 business days to tell the dealer to proceed or deny the sale. If the FBI hasn't responded within 3 business days, the seller can proceed with the sale.

This happened to me, after I was charged with a felony (possession of a sawed off rifle/shotgun). This charge was dropped and I was charged under another misdemeanor section. This case was dismissed at trial upon my motion. At that time, I was also within the probation period after receiving a deferred sentence on a charge of carrying a concealed weapon. Since the other charges were dismissed, I completed my probation and was not sentenced. However, the next time I went to buy a gun from an FFL, I got delayed. They never came back with a DENY or PROCEED, so the transfer went ahead.

I later had all record of the prosecution expunged, and I never got delayed by the feds again.

I would say expect to get delayed if you buy from an FFL. I would recommend getting your record expunged. In most states, expungement deems the entire prosecution never to have happened, and provides that you may truthfully answer that you were never even charged with the offense. This is a big help on job applications. It will also help with NICS checks. Of course you could always just buy from a private seller and cut the annoying nosy feds out of the process.

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