Doing What You Can With A Mosin

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

docsleepy

Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,023
Right off the bat, if you are a believer that one should never alter an ancient rifle, then now would be the time to STOP READING THIS THREAD!!

If you aren't made of money, and are curious just what you can do with very little of it to get a fairly accurate rifle, then keep reading.

This is my story of attempting to take a Mosin Nagant and become accurate.

When I started out, my son and I put a piece of paper at 100 yards and ran a small bet to see if either of us could hit the paper. I think he came closer and won. Here is what a typical target looked like back then.
 

Attachments

  • pinktarget.jpg
    pinktarget.jpg
    30.3 KB · Views: 125
Next, I tried various ways to make the iron sights work better with my aging eyes. I tried altering the front sight, and I tried turning the rear sight into a peep sight, using a cut off case. Not much improvement.
 

Attachments

  • peepsight.jpg
    peepsight.jpg
    39.5 KB · Views: 122
  • peepsighttarget.jpg
    peepsighttarget.jpg
    40.3 KB · Views: 56
Iron sights weren't going very well, and I didn't like the price of some of the ways of affixing a scope to a Mosin, so I tried to manufacture my own, liberally partaking of others' designs. There was some improvement. On the target, there are actually several different groups where I adjusted various things -- now multiple groups fit on one page.

Now right from the beginning I went to handloading, and quickly found that Norma brass had decent sized primer pockets, and was a bunch superior to another brass brand.
 

Attachments

  • InitialScope.jpg
    InitialScope.jpg
    48.2 KB · Views: 126
  • Scoped Mosin Target.JPG
    Scoped Mosin Target.JPG
    55.5 KB · Views: 61
Along in here I learned how to crown a Mosin without needing money, or a lathe, or a gunsmith. Youtube showed me how.

Cut off the end with either a hacksaw or a cutoff saw ($40 @ Harbor Freight, much better cut!)

Get the LARGE size Lee case trimmer and a spindle that is about 7mm (the 7mm08 case length gage works fine). Shim with portions of McDonalds straws as needed. Turn like heck. Repeat until the cuts are 360 degrees. Then polish with 600 grit or steel wool. Large brass round headed screw with lapping compound in the groove, turned slowly with drill or electric screwdriver, square onto bore, will bevel the opening nicely.

Groups shrank appreciably again. See those lands? They're gorgeous!
 

Attachments

  • CRown.jpg
    CRown.jpg
    36.9 KB · Views: 116
Then I broke down and tried the NcStar 2-7X long eye relief scope. If you are lucky, your rear sight comes off easily and reveals a dovetail (just like an old .22LR rifle) underneath. Couple of dovetail rings and you have a scope attached. I got those scopes for under $40 at the beginning.

Things will work better if you glue down the rings to the dovetail with JB Weld...the dovetails aren't perfectly formed on most.

Other mosins will require some acetylene torch encouragement to release the silver soldered rear sight base. I haven't tried that yet.
 
Barrel stiffness goes up by the third power as you shorten the barrel. I cut some of these barrels down to 18 or 19 inches and boy, they REALLY started to shoot pretty decent!
 

Attachments

  • CutDownTarget.JPG
    CutDownTarget.JPG
    40.3 KB · Views: 61
Shortening the barrel worked so well, I began to wonder about the fact that barrel stiffness goes up by the FOURTH power of diameter......what could you do about that?

There's a company in the Carolinas that actually puts an outer jacket on AR15 rifles to increase the stiffness. In years past, people tried "tensioning" barrels which may have been similar. The company had actually done a Mosin once.....

Could it just be that I could do this myself? Off to Home Depot and a 3/4" galvanized water pipe is just to ticket to fit over most of a cut down Mosin Nagant Barrel!

Here's how you do it, if you decide to try this:

Use a hacksaw, milling machine, or anything you have to cut the rear quartering off so that you can still get to the dovetail. Mix up some JBWeld, and start to pack it into the rear (and do the scope mount if you didn't read my post above). Use toothpicks or matches up at the muzzle end to keep the barrel roughly centered in the pipe. When you have some thickening of the rear glue (patience!!) begin attempting to pour glue down the front, trying to avoid trapping air bubbles. This is ticklish work, to say the least. I elected to leave a 1/4" portion of the original muzzle sticking out.
 

Attachments

  • MakingWaterRear.JPG
    MakingWaterRear.JPG
    50.3 KB · Views: 118
  • MakingWaterStock.jpg
    MakingWaterStock.jpg
    52.9 KB · Views: 133
Did you see those fangs that I left sticking out from the original stock? The reason for them is that I want to interdigitate a flat bottom that will ride smoothly in a benchrest front rest. (Rock BR style).

Drill a 1/4" hole a bit into the Mosin Stock, and a matching hole into a 1x3" select pine piece of wood from HOme Depot, about 7" long, and use a segment of a 1/4" piece of carriage bolt as a "dowel" between the original stock and the "ski" that you are adding. Add glue between then, add shims where necessary to make it solid and strong.

(Later on, I may add a bit more wood to make this more resemble a normal rifle, and I'll stain and polyurethane this also....but shooting comes first!)
 

Attachments

  • MakingWaterSki.jpg
    MakingWaterSki.jpg
    47.9 KB · Views: 127
The final Result:

Although there is one shot kinda out of the group, you can see FOUR SHOTS TOUCHING EACH OTHER in this group of five.

We have gone from a rifle where we bet each other who could even HIT a piece of paper at 100 yards, to a rifle that can produce four shots touching.

I went from hoping I even HIT the 100 yard target, to the amazing outcome that I can now put those 4" orange clay pigeons out on the berm at 215 yards and pick them off, one by one by one. Like clockwork. With a 74 year old rifle that I paid $130 for, a $40 scope, some left over rings, a $10 piece of galvanized pipe, a bit of wood, and a lot of time and effort just reading and trying things!
 

Attachments

  • WaterTarget.JPG
    WaterTarget.JPG
    44 KB · Views: 89
Handloaded on cheap Lee anniversary single stage press.
Norma brass.
Varget 44 grains in cold weather, 42 grains in our current heat wave.
Sierra 150 grain spire point .311 bullet (slugged my barrel)
Best results are split between annealed, full length sized brass, and then the next go around with that brass shot, and only necksized on the next roloading.... then anneal and full length and repeat.

The leade (throat?) in these old rifles is SOOOO LOOOONG that there is no hope of ever jamming the bullet into the lands, so I just stick with some length from the Sierra loading handbook (but using .311 bullets instead of .308)

I did create a Neck Sizing die by taking a Lee .308 neck sizer and adding about a 3 mm annular spacer on the bottom end of the die since 7.62x54R is about 3mm longer than .308. I made the spacer out of washers and glued it on.

I have also used a Lee Loader, which works fine.
 
I think I worked with three or four as my main interest. Gave one away as a Christmas present.

A lot of my friends don't have a lot of money, this is a rifle they could afford. Surplus ammo is still available. Cheap. Lee Classic Loader is available cheaply, making reloading expensive. I know of at least three new hi power rifle owning. families as a result. For our freedoms it's all in the numbers.
 
I look at the issue from both sides, with mixed feelings:

I have a 91/30 Russian Mosin "as-issued" Mosin matching ser nos for collection and vintage military matches.

I have a Type 53 Chinese Mosin mismatched numbers, abbreviated stock, bayonet mount ground off, as a bad-weather hunter and casual plinker. (Folks who shopped at the Army/Navy Surplus stores in the 1950s and 1960s may remember that military rifles with "sporterized" stocks sold for more than unalterated rifles.)

On the one hand, my Type 53 stock was trashed--no upper handguard or barrel band, the stock split in places. I found a Mosin stock at a gunshow to make an old tyle "semi-sporter".

On the other hand, I rue over the years "semi-sporterizing" as-issued 1895 Mauser, 1916 Mauser and M38 Carcano. Oh well, they were not pristine collectibles, but as good-to-fair condition guns, they would have had more resale value if left as issued. But I have pictures of my late dad shooting my 1895 "sporter" at the old homeplace (he died 1972), so I got my 24.95 out of it. (If pristine I could sell it today for about $150.)

There's enough Mosins in all conditions to satisfy collectors and experimenters alike; can't we all just get along?
 
Carl N. Brown said:
There's enough Mosins in all conditions to satisfy collectors and experimenters alike; can't we all just get along?
Click to expand...
Amen to that.

I got lucky with my 91/30 off the rack. 1934 Tula hex receiver. Sanding out the stock it shoots minute of clay pigeon at 200 yds with surplus ammo. It might do better with a trgger job, but it's good enough for me as it is now.

Nice work you did there with the mod. Good read!
 
Tendriver, is your gun one of those awesome ones that Larrys was selling for $100 a year ago? I got 2 of them from there. Both shoot, but nothing spectacular. I would be pretty happy if I got them to shoot consistent 3" groups with cheap surplus.
 
I have a nice 1943 Izhevsk M91/30, all-matching and bright bore. Only problem with it was the wood had shrunk and made the upper handguard loose. I just killed 2 birds with one stone by full-length corking the upper handguard. This both keeps it from migrating forwards and will improve accuracy.
 
Very ingenious solutions. Personally I just bought a finn, but to each his own. I won't bash you for cutting up a Mosin, if you are going to do it to any surplus rifle then a Mosin is the ticket.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top