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Just a friendly reminder folks if your house is on fire and you have ammo, reloading stuff, let the firedepartment know.
dont forget to tell the Fire Department!
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Just a friendly reminder folks if your house is on fire and you have ammo, reloading stuff, let the firedepartment know.
gbran
Member
About 25 years ago, my garage caught fire. My guns were in the house, but I had a large amount of ammo and some reloading supplies in the garage. I did tell the FD. The garage was pretty much destroyed and I remember hearing very stiffled explosions (cook-offs?), but nothing like ammo being fired from guns. The FD was glad I told them, but I didn't see them take any special precautions.
RecoilRob
Member
I call BS on this one. Cookoff ammo shouldn't/wouldn't cause that severe an injury to anyones abdomen....especially a firefighter in his coat.
Now....a loaded firearm cooking off most certainly would send a projectile out fast enough to do someone grievious harm. Leaving loaded guns lying around can be serious hazards in a fire for sure.
Now....a loaded firearm cooking off most certainly would send a projectile out fast enough to do someone grievious harm. Leaving loaded guns lying around can be serious hazards in a fire for sure.
zxcvbob
Member
If I have blackpowder, or loaded firearms, or a large stash of primers I will tell them about those.
Smokeless powder and ammunition are relatively harmless, but might give them reason to not put out the fire if they don't know that.
Smokeless powder and ammunition are relatively harmless, but might give them reason to not put out the fire if they don't know that.
Even without a barrel, it is possible for a cartridge discharging to cause significant injury, even with smokeless powder. It's unusual, but definitely within the realm of possible. I would imagine that the more powder the cartridge has and the more grains the bullet is (causing it to be seated deeper into the case) - the chances of an injury increase.
For example, .380 Auto with a light bullet is probably less likely to cause an injury than say a hot .50 BMG or .338 Xtreme Tactical cartridge with a deeply seated bullet. The neck is almost like a tiny barrel.
In the case of BP ammo - totally and easily possible for an injury to occur IMO.
I'm not any kind of an expert. I'm just voicing what my intuition tells me.
TallPine
Member
Ok, I'll make a note to tell myself about this, since I'm part of the FD 
But I can't imagine any house around here not having significant quantities of ammo inside.
But I can't imagine any house around here not having significant quantities of ammo inside.
Blackbeard
Member
I keep all ammo in the safe. No way anything's getting out of there.
RecoilRob
Member
Intuition can be wrong:
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=3164&issue=
Specifically...."In fact, industry and military tests have long proved that small arms cartridge pose little hazard in a fire. A classic reference work from the 1940s describes tests in which large quantities of shotgun shells and metallic cartridges were deliberately set on fire. The ammunition generally burned slowly, and cartridges ignited “piece by piece” without throwing fragments more than a few feet. (Julian S. Hatcher, Hatcher’s Notebook 532-33 (2d ed. 1962).)"
The NRA did extensive testing of this 'danger' and found it to be very minimal. Especially to firefighters in their gear. NO WAY an uncontained round penetrated a coat and the fellows stomach. The paper is trying to demonize the storage of ammo by us 'civilians' as being too dangerous. Bosh.....
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=3164&issue=
Specifically...."In fact, industry and military tests have long proved that small arms cartridge pose little hazard in a fire. A classic reference work from the 1940s describes tests in which large quantities of shotgun shells and metallic cartridges were deliberately set on fire. The ammunition generally burned slowly, and cartridges ignited “piece by piece” without throwing fragments more than a few feet. (Julian S. Hatcher, Hatcher’s Notebook 532-33 (2d ed. 1962).)"
The NRA did extensive testing of this 'danger' and found it to be very minimal. Especially to firefighters in their gear. NO WAY an uncontained round penetrated a coat and the fellows stomach. The paper is trying to demonize the storage of ammo by us 'civilians' as being too dangerous. Bosh.....
divemedic
Member
A couple of years ago, we had a police cruiser catch fire in the town where I work. A considerable amount of ammo cooked off. Some of the pieces from ruptured cases did do a bit of damage. Also, the myth busters did a similar test and found that ammo CAN rupture in a fire with a bit off force. Nothing like leaving a gun barrel, but still some force there.
Still, we don't worry about guns or ammo in houses.
Still, we don't worry about guns or ammo in houses.
lacoochee
Member
Mythbuster's did an episode on exploding ammunition where they dumped a bunch of ammo of various calibers in a campfire and very little damage was done. Here is a video of them cooking them off in an oven.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BX1kvJVrjc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BX1kvJVrjc
This video shows when the Mythbusters cook bullets in an oven.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7BX1kvJVrjc
Cliff notes: Bullets will cook off at around 475F or so. And you are perfectly fine, a .50BMG might cause a big scare, but little or no harm. Everything smaller -- you're fine. In a firearm however, it's lethal.
EDIT: yikes. beaten to it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7BX1kvJVrjc
Cliff notes: Bullets will cook off at around 475F or so. And you are perfectly fine, a .50BMG might cause a big scare, but little or no harm. Everything smaller -- you're fine. In a firearm however, it's lethal.
EDIT: yikes. beaten to it.
Hk91-762mm
Member
Im a firefighter 20+years
I have seen photos showing the results of ammo deliberitly set off inside a card board box -Very little damage from any ammo-12ga =375HH mag.
Now heres the problem -In Canada I am aware of at least 1 time where the CITY firefighters pulled back and allowed the house to burn Because there was GUN POWDER and reloading supplies in the home .
I beleave this happened In the USA in rochester Ny where the city Fire guys Pulled and let a home burn because of ammo/powder/firearms
Now these guys Might be ANTI GUNNERS as most City Fds are union and most unioners are Democrats and most dems are anti gun ...
Me I have never been afraid to fight a fire B/C of gun related Objects in the home
I have seen photos showing the results of ammo deliberitly set off inside a card board box -Very little damage from any ammo-12ga =375HH mag.
Now heres the problem -In Canada I am aware of at least 1 time where the CITY firefighters pulled back and allowed the house to burn Because there was GUN POWDER and reloading supplies in the home .
I beleave this happened In the USA in rochester Ny where the city Fire guys Pulled and let a home burn because of ammo/powder/firearms
Now these guys Might be ANTI GUNNERS as most City Fds are union and most unioners are Democrats and most dems are anti gun ...
Me I have never been afraid to fight a fire B/C of gun related Objects in the home
Most of the people in my former rural home state, back east, had firearms/ammunition and we were involved with the Volunteer FD/EMT. Many of them did not own as much as I did and I only owned about 13 guns at the time! I would have told our department what we had and WHERE it was located in our house even if most knew about me being a 'gun nut'.
Out here in Montana... I would tell the FD the same thing. Most people even people in various political parties (Super liberal! Gasp!) own firearms for self defense and/or hunting OUT HERE unless they are Peta People or in certain U of M crowds!
Catherine - Constitutional Lady myself! Some call that being an 'extremist'! Grin. So be it! Double grin.
Out here in Montana... I would tell the FD the same thing. Most people even people in various political parties (Super liberal! Gasp!) own firearms for self defense and/or hunting OUT HERE unless they are Peta People or in certain U of M crowds!
Catherine - Constitutional Lady myself! Some call that being an 'extremist'! Grin. So be it! Double grin.
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SMLE
Member
The error here is; which is lighter, the bullet, or the brass? The BRASS is what's going to go flying when ammunition is burned. And I second the opinion that flying brass isn't going to do much through a FF's bunker gear. I've worn that stuff for extrication training and it is THICK AND TOUGH. The idea of a loaded firearm cooking off and causing a serious injury is more like it.
Fair point, I was thinking more around the lines of the ammo being stored bullet up in a can sitting on the ground.
I agree that it is still unlikely to cause injury, but I just still have this feeling that it isn't impossible.
Remember that thread about the kid who was hitting primers with a hammer to set off the charge and unseat the bullet in doing so - all so that he could sell his parents' ammo brass for scrap metal? That kid got a wound to the abdomen too if I remember correctly.
walking arsenal
Member
I've never seen a case heavier than the bullet loaded into it.
There fore the case will go flying before the bullet will.
Also, there is no way I would tell the FD about my stuff.
The last thing i need is for them to let my house burn to the ground because of a box of shells.
Or
Have them tell the snoopy authorities.
There fore the case will go flying before the bullet will.
Also, there is no way I would tell the FD about my stuff.
The last thing i need is for them to let my house burn to the ground because of a box of shells.
Or
Have them tell the snoopy authorities.
As some of you have pointed out this is mostly BS. Urban Myths cited by those who want to sound important.
A number of years ago a small fire started in a Mom & Pop sporting goods store near where I lived. Fire department refused to come closer than 1/2 mile away and hid behind their tanker "so they would not get shot".
Those of us close to the fire heard numerous "pops" but no explosions or "gunfire". Building was a total loss and was never rebuilt. We still miss the old place.
A number of years ago a small fire started in a Mom & Pop sporting goods store near where I lived. Fire department refused to come closer than 1/2 mile away and hid behind their tanker "so they would not get shot".
Those of us close to the fire heard numerous "pops" but no explosions or "gunfire". Building was a total loss and was never rebuilt. We still miss the old place.
DoubleTapDrew
Member
Bad situation. You want to "do the right thing" and let them know, but don't want your house to burn to the ground because of something that is probably much less hazardous than actually going into a burning house.
I dont know about other departments but the one I curently work with, we know where the ammunition is stored and how much and what it is, if there is a fire we asign a 2.5 inch hose just for the arms room in adition to hose lines for the fire if you have that much fire that a 2.5 inch hose will not handle then its a lost cause any way and we wont be hanging around inside anyway.
9-11-01 changed a lot of departments operating policies. We just dont take the risks and chances we once did. There is a lot less going into structures that have say the second floor fully involved at where we use to do it most of the time.
alsaqr
Member
+1
I have been an EOD guy since 1959 and have destroyed over two billion (yep, with a b) rounds of small arms ammunition including lots of .50 caliber. Most of it was burned in open pits with scrap wood for a heat source. It is very unusual for a bullet or cartridge case to travel over 30 feet from the pit.
An exception is steel cased ammo, especially 12.7mm and 14.5mm: Sometimes these cases send off some fragments at a pretty good velocity.
Ammo cooking off CAN do damage, and I have proof. I'm not real proud of it, but I was young and stupid. Some equally ignorant friends and I decided we wanted to see what would happen if we
put a .22 cartridge in a fire. I don't know what part of it got me, but whatever it was, it went all the way through my finger. I'm just glad I'm here to say "live and learn". My hand was about 6 inches from my eye, at the time.
put a .22 cartridge in a fire. I don't know what part of it got me, but whatever it was, it went all the way through my finger. I'm just glad I'm here to say "live and learn". My hand was about 6 inches from my eye, at the time.
Notch
Member
In a cokkoff you are in far more danger from a shattered case than you are from the slug. Energy flows through the easiest course. The heavy slug will move little whilst the lighter case will move the most.
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