Double checking primer pressure signs

[ar-newbie]

Last year I loaded up my first batch of 5.56 ammo using lake city once fired brass, using 55 grain fmjbt , cci primers, and 25 grains of cfe 223 powder. COAL 2.25"

They have been shooting fine, and I just wanted to run the fired primers by you guys. My interpretation is they are doing just fine.

no signs of powder along the breech side, slightly dirty on outsides of cases, none seem to have any brass issues.

As a side note, how many reloads are most of you getting from the pre-fired lake city brass?
I was hoping to see around 5 to 6 uses from them.

 

[Tony k]

I'd have no problem with that.

I'm curious about your velocities. I was loading it at the higher end of the Hornady manual. I recently got a chronograph and found that my CFE 223 loads were much slower than expected.

 

[ar-newbie]

I haven't bothered checking the velocity yet. These are just for target practice at the range, and the accuracy has been impressive. .5 moa groups out of a Palmetto State Armory freedom rifle with stainless barrel, 1:8 twist.

 

[edwardware]

Normal primers, no sign of pressure.

As a note, I always look at an unfired example next to a fired sample. Starting corner radius varies per brand.

 

[ar-newbie]

Here is unfired.

 

[Laphroaig]

You primer picture looks normal to me too.

I was hoping to see around 5 to 6 uses from them.

At least that many, probably more. Assuming your full length resizing setup is compatible with your chamber dimension, the first mode of failure in LC brass should be cracked necks. If you don't anneal the first cracked necks might start to appear at 6 or 7 reloads. I'd discard that bunch of brass when the # of cracks is more than a few per batch of reloads. If you anneal, the sky is the limit.

 

[ar-newbie]

Yeah, I can still see the curved edge on the fired ones, not showing up in the photos too well.

As far as annealing, I have debated a few times if I want to go to those lengths. I know it prolongs case life significantly, it's just a matter of throwing even more time at the process, which for me is already fairly involved. It would be easier if I wasn't stubborn and only loaded a huge batch once a year. Then I get bogged down because I like to be very safety oriented, and inspect each piece at every step along the way.

 

[Laphroaig]

It would be easier if I wasn't stubborn and only loaded a huge batch once a year. Then I get bogged down because I like to be very safety oriented, and inspect each piece at every step along the way.

It might be easier, but not better. Keep doing it that way and you'll save yourself trouble along the way.

My annealing procedure is to do it once after the 3rd reload. That batch will last me well north of 10 reloads. .223 brass isn't rare or overly expensive so for me, up not upset prepping a new batch every couple of years.

 

[someguy2800]

That is 100% fine

 

[Varminterror]

Primer looks fine.

For a properly tuned AR, I'm generally disappointed to get less than 20 reloadings out of a batch of brass, annealing every 3rd or 4th. Pocket loosening becomes the failure mode, in that case. Without annealing, I wish for 10, and expect 5. Generally somewhere between those bounds is what I get. LC 5.56 isn't hard to find, nor expensive, so it's less critical to anneal as a money saving effort than for other brands of brass or other cartridges.

 

[Blue68f100]

So far I have got 10 and counting on my LC plinking loads, 27.7 gr CFE223 with 55gr FMJBT. I anneal every cycle though. On some of my Higher match loads with Lapua brass the primer pockets have loosened up after 10 loads. Switching primers got me a few more cycles. As long as your not pushing the upper limit you will get very good life, if your annealing your brass. If not expect 4-6 before the necks start splitting.

 

[edwardware]

Yeah, I can still see the curved edge on the fired ones. . .

About the time the radius goes to zero and starts to reverse and fill the pocket's radius, you're into overpressure signs.

And then there's always that special someone. . .

 

[redbullitt]

Hard to see the primer edges, but I dont see it flattening out too much. No crater either at all, though that one can be a bit tricky sometimes...

Assuming you are inside of published data, I would say good to go.

Lake city brass is good, but I find split necks usually kill my brass. Annealing it will help keep that from happening so soon.

 

[Walkalong]

Ouch.

 

[hdwhit]

Tony k wrote:
I was loading it at the higher end of the Hornady manual. I recently got a chronograph and found that my CFE 223 loads were much slower than expected.

According to the introductory paragraph in the book, the Hornady data was developed using a rifle with a 26 inch barrel. How long is the barrel on the rifle you are firing?

 

[CLP]

About the time the radius goes to zero and starts to reverse and fill the pocket's radius, you're into overpressure signs.

And then there's always that special someone. . . View attachment 770922

Glad someone posted a good pic of this. You always wonder, "is this a flattened primer?"
I did. Until I actually got them- they flow into the radius around the circumference of the primer pocket. Just need to see it once and you'll never question yourself again. But remember you don't have to have high pressure signs like sticky cases or flattened primers to be shooting cartridges that have excessive pressure.

 

[edwardware]

. . . they flow into the radius around the circumference of the primer pocket.
. . .
But remember you don't have to have high pressure signs like sticky cases or flattened primers to be shooting cartridges that have excessive pressure.

Correct. Lack of primer pressure signs doesn't necessarily mean that a load isn't overpressure, especially in a semi-auto action or low-pressure cartridge.

That .380 brass is all the more remarkable for the fact that most .380s are blowback (unlocked) actions. Apparently someone was trying to make 9mm Major in a .380, and I'll bet recoil was snappy!

 

[gillmeister692]

So far I have got 10 and counting on my LC plinking loads, 27.7 gr CFE223 with 55gr FMJBT. I anneal every cycle though. On some of my Higher match loads with Lapua brass the primer pockets have loosened up after 10 loads. Switching primers got me a few more cycles. As long as your not pushing the upper limit you will get very good life, if your annealing your brass. If not expect 4-6 before the necks start splitting.

By "cycle", do you mean (1) reloading = (1) cycle?

 

[Blue68f100]

Yes. My brass prep includes annealing as part of the brass prep. I do this with all rifle brass.

 

[Tony k]

According to the introductory paragraph in the book, the Hornady data was developed using a rifle with a 26 inch barrel. How long is the barrel on the rifle you are firing?

16" and 20"
27.4 gr CFE 223, CCI 41 primers
Avg for 16" 2841
Avg for 20" 2955

By comparison 26.4 grains w748 gets me 2954 with 16" and 3007 with 20"

25 grains h335:
2951 (16") and 3141 (20")

 

[ar-newbie]

now you got me thinking about h335 instead of the cfe 223, but the cfe has had great accuracy

 

[ar-newbie]

I guess for target shooting I don't really care how fast it's going ,but it's nice to know it hits the same spot every time

 

[Tony k]

The only reason I care about velocity is that I was hoping to match my loads to my scope's ballistic turret, which is "calibrated" for a 55gr fmjbt going 3150fps.

Otherwise, yes accuracy first and foremost!

 

[ms6852]

I was loading it at the higher end of the Hornady manual. I recently got a chronograph and found that my CFE 223 loads were much slower than expected.

You must remember that their barrel length during testing might longer than your rifle barrel. They use a 26" barrel for the 223 and a 20" barrel for the AR15 tests. That adds approximately 25 to 30 fps per inch. So if you have a 16" barrel that is anywhere between 250 fps to 300 fps more.

 

[Tony k]

You must remember that their barrel length during testing might longer than your rifle barrel. They use a 26" barrel for the 223 and a 20" barrel for the AR15 tests. That adds approximately 25 to 30 fps per inch. So if you have a 16" barrel that is anywhere between 250 fps to 300 fps more.

Of course, but real world test results make it more nuanced. I expected to get relatively higher velocities with CFE223 because the published data shows relatively higher velocities. I found the opposite to be true for this application wherein it was both slower velocity than comparable powders, and further departed from advertised claims.

Hodgdon website uses 24" barrel.

CFE 223 is 375fps slower for me than hodgdon website (24" vs 20"= 93fps/in)

748 is 143fps slower (33fps/in)

H335 is 64fps slower (16fps/in)

Ymmv