Double End and Button Nose Wadcutters at 357 Magnum Velocities

[DMW1116]

Since these are solid projectiles, can they be driven to full magnum velocities? Is there load data for this? I have data in my Lyman manual for solid Button-Nose Wadcutters at 150 grains, but the data is only for 38 Special loads. If not, I could use 158 grain SWC data as a starting point. I have to order some Acme green bullets for our father/daughter zombie shoot in October and though I could give the BNWC a try while I'm at it.

 

[.38 Special]

Yes, I've done it, though the usual cautions apply: the bullet needs to fit the gun, it needs to be of appropriate alloy, and the gun needs to be reasonably well dimensioned. I've gotten them to the 1300 fps neighborhood with 2400.

 

[Walkalong]

I still have a 30 Call ammo can of them loaded to full power in .38 Spl brass, no reason at all you can’t do it in .357 if the fit is good etc.

 

[DMW1116]

Is one preferred over the other in terms of DEWC vs BMWC in relation to accuracy or other concerns?

 

[Blue68f100]

Depending on bullet hardness you may get leading at full 357 mag velocities. I would only load a few to test before loading a lot of them.

 

[Docendo Discimus]

Is it possible get enough magnum powder under a wadcutter to push it to magnum velocity?

 

[DMW1116]

I was going to try a sample of 100 and see how they work. They’re about half the price of the Hornady HBWC but those set a high standard for low velocity target loads. I thought I’d try to equal them at magnum speeds.

 

[DMW1116]

Not sure. I may just stick to target loads but I thought I’d try them.

 

[DMW1116]

I can push cast 158 grain SWC to full velocity without leading. Maybe I should just stick with what works.

 

[Walkalong]

I can push cast 158 grain SWC to full velocity without leading. Maybe I should just stick with what works.

Bingo! We have a winner.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Bingo! We have a winner.

still would be cool to do a Full Magnum double ended Wadcutter

 

[Walkalong]

So do it.

Valiant DEWC with W-231 in .38 Spl. They cut full calibers holes in stuff. Don't copy the load..........

 

[.38 Special]

Is it possible get enough magnum powder under a wadcutter to push it to magnum velocity?

You just have to squish it a bit - at least with 2400.

 

[Docendo Discimus]

So do it.

Valiant DEWC with W-231 in .38 Spl. They cut full calibers holes in stuff. Don't copy the load..........
View attachment 1170598

Mail that to me. I'll dispose of it properly!

 

[Walkalong]

Swing by at lunch and you can have it............

 

[gwpercle]

When loading WC's it is best to find / use printed loading data because WC's are so deep seated .
The deep seating takes up case capacity ... which in a long 38/357 mag case isn't a bad thing sometimes but needs to be taken into consideration . A heavy load WC makes for a hard hitting SD round ... I carry 160 gr. Lyman 358432 wadcutter loaded ammo in my Air-Weight 38 Special J-frame , 5.2 grs. Unique = 915 fps is a nice hard hitting load !
The best WC design to use for heavy loads is one with a dedicated crimp groove ... like the button nose or Lyman 358432 ... put a nice roll crimp into the crimp groove and the bullet will not creep forward under recoil . Most double ended WC's do not have a dedicated crimp groove because they are normally not crimped but loaded flush with the case ... I don't like them , I want crimp grooves .

Don't be afraid of the Wadcutter ... Loaded light or heavy ... it's a good bullet for target or critters !

If you have never experienced shooting the 160 gr. Lyman 358432 bullet design , it is a cross between a SWC and a WC design ... the most accurate bullet I have found in under 50 yards shooting ... it is discontinued by Lyman ... but NOE (www.noebulletmoulds.com ) now makes this design and a 4 cavity NOE mould is a joy to cast with ... they also tweaked the design and made it better ...
NOE # 360-160-WC PB (360432) , if you shoot 38 special / 357 mag and never tried this puppy ...
It's a Winner ... and at NOE you can get them Hollow Pointed ...Wicked To Say the Least !
Gary

 

[refuse2bafool]

If not, I could use 158 grain SWC data as a starting point.

If I understand you correctly...

It is okay to use load data for a slightly heavier bullet in most cases, but I would be concerned that you are reducing case volume if you are using a wad cutter, especially if it set flush with the case rim as opposed to a SWC. Others may disagree, but I would definitely start with a lighter load and work up to anything approaching a magnum load.

FYI: Extreme has plated DEWC.

38- 148 WC

38- 148 WC

www.xtremebullets.com

 

[DMW1116]

I had planned to measure them compared to a SWC and see how much case capacity was lost. I’ll have to check my Lyman manual and see how hard they push the ones there velocity wise. I’m currently using 38 Special data in 357 cases for my Hornady HBWC loads and that seems like a good place to start with these too. The manual shows Titegroup as the most accurate powder so maybe I can pick some of that up too. I can use it my 9mm target loads too. I’ll see when I place the order in a well or so.

 

[bluetopper]

If I remember correctly the hardback Lee reloading book has a lot of 357 double end wadcutter data.

 

[Tilos]

I had planned to measure them compared to a SWC and see how much case capacity was lost. I’ll have to check my Lyman manual and see how hard they push the ones there velocity wise. I’m currently using 38 Special data in 357 cases for my Hornady HBWC loads and that seems like a good place to start with these too. The manual shows Titegroup as the most accurate powder so maybe I can pick some of that up too. I can use it my 9mm target loads too. I’ll see when I place the order in a well or so.

I load WC in 38sp cases (or 357 cases), seated/crimped in the lube grooves.
This approximates the case capacity of a 357 and the OAL cannot be mistakenly chambered in a 38sp cylinder because it is longer than the cylinder.
So, yeh, can be loaded hotter than 38sp but not 357 top loads.
A pic (not mine):

When chambered, the bullet is actually in the throat...
Using coated bullets makes the bullet hardness irrelevant.
jmo,
.
edit: I have posted this many times, sorry for the echo.

 

[41 Mag]

The crimp groove was one of the things I was looking at when I picked up my Ideal 358344 mold. It sits in either 38 or 357, about a third out in front and has a nice crimp groove. When seated and crimped it comes just shy of the mouth of either cylinder and is " just" small enough to fit the cylinder cone. The base is a full bore fit and requires a bit of a push to go all the way through.

I have loaded them to some pretty spunky velocities and they shoot well, but once they get to just over around 1150-1200fps the accuracy starts to head south and they spread out.

 

[DMW1116]

If I remember correctly the hardback Lee reloading book has a lot of 357 double end wadcutter data.

I should get one of those anyway. I only have one hardback manual. It’s the Lyman 49th edition. It’s quite good by my estimates, but I think the Lee has more of the odd information I look for rather often.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I use the x-treme plated DEWCs like "refuse2beafool" has in his picture. I don't crimp in the fake crimp groove. I let them stick out like Tilos is showing in post 20 and use a taper crimp on them.
That cannulure isn't deep enough for a good roll crimp. I do like those bullet and still use them but to the 1100s fps range because their plated bullets.
I seat them the same depth as my SWCs and use the same recipes for the SWC and put a taper crimp on them.

If I'm using hard cast coated wad cutters loads, like Acme's or Brazo's, and higher pressure loads, I crimp in the lube groove that is closest to the height of the lube groove of the SWC I use, and use the same recipe for both of them.
Difference between 158 gr SWC and 148gr WC doesn't make a lot of difference in velocity.

 

[Jim Watson]

I’ll have to check my Lyman manual

A quick look in Lyman 49 shows a 150 gr wadcutter and a 155 gr semiwadcutter. Five grains of lead is not much but you can see large differences in maximum loads due to seating depth.

Phil Sharpe tabulated revolver loads by seating depth, not OAL. Some he shows the same bullet seated differently.

 

[DMW1116]

You just have to squish it a bit - at least with 2400.

Compressed loads in pistol rounds wasn’t a road I was prepared to take.