LHRGunslinger
Member
I'm drooling over them right now & I might be intrested in purchasing one for hunting down the line. What do these go for? What's the best economy model?
Double Rifles?
- Thread starter LHRGunslinger
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Dangerous game rifles (40 caliber and larger) tend to be priced upwards of $10,000 for new and about the same for used. This is for either SxS or O/U rifles with the latter generally being more expensive. Cabela's has a line of Spanish made SxS rifles in big bores in the $5,600 range but that seems pretty inexpensive for such an arm.
If one is looking for a smaller caliber firearm then they can be fund a bit cheaper. Cabela's has 9.3x74R and 45/70 rifles in the $3000 range and Baikal had/has a SxS in 45/70 or 30/06 that ran under $1,000 a few years back. Merkel or Chapouis had a SxS in smaller calibers which rand in the $6,000-$7,000 range and one might be able to find a Winchester O/U rifle under $5000. One can often find a lesser known, smaller caliber double rifle at a gun show for less, I picked up a Heym SxS in 303-25 with a 4x Hensoldt scope in claw mounts for $1700 a year ago. The dies ran me nearly $200 but it is a nice shooting gun and getting the scope mounts evened things out.
If one is looking for a smaller caliber firearm then they can be fund a bit cheaper. Cabela's has 9.3x74R and 45/70 rifles in the $3000 range and Baikal had/has a SxS in 45/70 or 30/06 that ran under $1,000 a few years back. Merkel or Chapouis had a SxS in smaller calibers which rand in the $6,000-$7,000 range and one might be able to find a Winchester O/U rifle under $5000. One can often find a lesser known, smaller caliber double rifle at a gun show for less, I picked up a Heym SxS in 303-25 with a 4x Hensoldt scope in claw mounts for $1700 a year ago. The dies ran me nearly $200 but it is a nice shooting gun and getting the scope mounts evened things out.
forindooruseonly
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Double rifles tend to be tremendously expensive because of the effort needed to regulate the barrels to shoot to the same point. This is a time consuming process. A poorly regulated gun is about worthless as a hunting arm, especially in flat grassy country where longer shots are needed. Chalk that up alongside the small demand for a double rifle in comparison to the bolt, semi and lever gun markets, and you lose the economies of scale available. Most double rifles, even the cheaper ones, are finely finished arms.
Loosedhorse
member
For reasons I'm not entirely clear about, over-under double rifles are considerably cheaper that the traditional side by sides (side-lock and and box-lock). Makers include Baikal, Valmet, CZ and Beretta.
Double rifles are at their best in cases where you might need an immediate second shot before the animal disappears, or before he kills you.
Double rifles are at their best in cases where you might need an immediate second shot before the animal disappears, or before he kills you.
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Sav .250
Member
Unless your a big time, big game hunter or guide, that`s a lot of money to tie up for ................."down the road hunting."
Then you want the ........economy model?
Then you want the ........economy model?
Loosedhorse,
It's more difficult to get the barrels regulated, i.e. to get the bullets to shoot in the same spot at a given range (usually around 50 meters/yards), when they are next each other, than when they are sitting on top one another.
It's more difficult to get the barrels regulated, i.e. to get the bullets to shoot in the same spot at a given range (usually around 50 meters/yards), when they are next each other, than when they are sitting on top one another.
DM~
Member
First of all, i've always dome my homework before buying a DR, and i've never lost money on a DR. SO, even though they are expensive, they are a better deal than a car, that you almost ALWAYS loose money on.
As for S&S DR's...
You can buy a quailty used 40 cal and up DR for about $8,000.00, sometimes a bit less.
The best buy in a quality DR today, is a Chapuis in 9.3x74R. They can be had for about $4,300.00 new.
0/U DR's are cheaper than the above prices, as most dedicated DR users want a S&S DR, that means it's harder to sell an 0/U DR...
The cheapest decent DR you can buy, is the 0/U Valmet 412... They don't get much respect in DR circles, but they are a decent cheaper DR.
Sabbati DR's are having ALL KINDS of problems, and i wouldn't buy one for half of what Cabella's is selling them for!!
DM
As for S&S DR's...
You can buy a quailty used 40 cal and up DR for about $8,000.00, sometimes a bit less.
The best buy in a quality DR today, is a Chapuis in 9.3x74R. They can be had for about $4,300.00 new.
0/U DR's are cheaper than the above prices, as most dedicated DR users want a S&S DR, that means it's harder to sell an 0/U DR...
The cheapest decent DR you can buy, is the 0/U Valmet 412... They don't get much respect in DR circles, but they are a decent cheaper DR.
Sabbati DR's are having ALL KINDS of problems, and i wouldn't buy one for half of what Cabella's is selling them for!!
DM
nortexeric
Member
I've been trying to find someone who sells a Baikal DR, but am not finding anything on them. Found a few auction listings, (Winning bid was around $1k), a bunch of chat about them from 2005-2008, most saying the rifles were supposed to be sold here by 2009. Anyways, curious if anyone knows what happened? I know originally they were suppose to be sold for around the $500-600 mark, but even at $1,000, that is still cheaper than spending $4,000. Although I'm sure the finish and overall look of a Chapuis will be better, I'm not really into looks. That, and I'm a big fan of the .45-70, so why not go with the cheaper one. I really want a DR, but I guess it may end up on the back burner with a few other dream guns.
-Eric
-Eric
DM~
Member
The difference between them is, one is a POS compared to the other. The Ruski is a work in progress, the Chapuis is a quality rifle!
DM
DM
Hizzie
Member
Baikal MR221 30.06
Much nicer wood than usually found on these.
They are a blast but I do need to make room in the safe.
Much nicer wood than usually found on these.
They are a blast but I do need to make room in the safe.
Cosmoline
Member
I seem to remember that some of the Russian ones had a screw to let you self-regulate the things.
I would love to have a high-end one, but they're beyond expensive. And at the end of the day a CZ or BRNO bolt gun would probably do as well.
Pete D.
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- Sep 13, 2010
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O/U
I bought this a few years ago, used. I use it frequently. Rizzini 90L Express, an O/U in .30-06.
Nice gun to carry, accurate (likes bullets at 2700 fps or so. First shot is right at POA, the second barrel a couple of inches higher at 100 yards.) Great deer rifle.
Pete
I bought this a few years ago, used. I use it frequently. Rizzini 90L Express, an O/U in .30-06.
Nice gun to carry, accurate (likes bullets at 2700 fps or so. First shot is right at POA, the second barrel a couple of inches higher at 100 yards.) Great deer rifle.
Pete
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vaupet
Member
Almost every European hunting rifle manufacturer has them (Blaser, fabarm, krieghoff, merkel.,) they also fabricate them at wisch with different calibers for different barrels.
The rifles are popular in the short "pirch" version.
The rifles are popular in the short "pirch" version.
The DR is maximum cool but the word "economy" doesn't really fit in to the mix.
When I was in college a local shop had a DR show up on consignment. This was around 1974 and the price was $1,300. May have well been a million as far as I was concerned. About 5 years later the rifle turned up again in the same shop Now it was tagged at $1,800... but by then I had a job. I bought it.
I contacted the manufacturer and was told that it was made in 1910 and sold to (James bond author) Ian Flemming's father in law which is sort of a weird fact. The price in 1910 was $140. A brand new Smith & Wesson cost about $13 at that time for comparison. In 1920 he put it on consignment in their shop and it sold to a prince of Afghanistan. Presumably he took it home and the maker had no record of it until I contacted them in the 1980s. This rifle has been around, to say the least.
I have had a lot of fun with this gun. No idea what it's worth today. If I were looking for a serious hunting rifle I would choose a good bolt gun in a heartbeat.
PS: This gun was stolen in 1985 but was recovered when the criminal who wound up with it took it to a gunshow and tried to sell it for $200 to an off-duty cop.
When I was in college a local shop had a DR show up on consignment. This was around 1974 and the price was $1,300. May have well been a million as far as I was concerned. About 5 years later the rifle turned up again in the same shop Now it was tagged at $1,800... but by then I had a job. I bought it.
I contacted the manufacturer and was told that it was made in 1910 and sold to (James bond author) Ian Flemming's father in law which is sort of a weird fact. The price in 1910 was $140. A brand new Smith & Wesson cost about $13 at that time for comparison. In 1920 he put it on consignment in their shop and it sold to a prince of Afghanistan. Presumably he took it home and the maker had no record of it until I contacted them in the 1980s. This rifle has been around, to say the least.
I have had a lot of fun with this gun. No idea what it's worth today. If I were looking for a serious hunting rifle I would choose a good bolt gun in a heartbeat.
PS: This gun was stolen in 1985 but was recovered when the criminal who wound up with it took it to a gunshow and tried to sell it for $200 to an off-duty cop.
HankB
Member
Cabela's carries the Sabatti rifles - http://www.cabelas.com/gun-library-sabatti-double-rifles.shtml
I've looked at them, and superficially they look pretty decent, with acceptable workmanship, good wood-to-metal fit, etc. They ARE a bit "tight" to start with, but I imagine they'll loosen up a bit with use.
The .45/70 and 9.3x74R are very light and handy - I think they'd be a lot of fun to carry and hunt with, and at $3000 (I HAVE seen them on sale for less!) I'd already have one if they had ejectors rather than extractors.
The more serious rifles (.470 Nitro, .450/400, etc.) are noticeably heavier, but that's not a bad thing since they'll certainly recoil more. The ones I looked at had ejectors and were priced at $5500.
In both cases, the stock dimensions seemed to suit me quite well.
The thing I DON'T know is their reliability . . . I've read a few (and I do mean FEW) reviews on these things, and they SEEM to be working OK. But then again, I've had some ugly experiences buying new guns that the gun rags touted, but which turned out to be troublesome pieces of . . . well, you get the picture.
I've looked at them, and superficially they look pretty decent, with acceptable workmanship, good wood-to-metal fit, etc. They ARE a bit "tight" to start with, but I imagine they'll loosen up a bit with use.
The .45/70 and 9.3x74R are very light and handy - I think they'd be a lot of fun to carry and hunt with, and at $3000 (I HAVE seen them on sale for less!) I'd already have one if they had ejectors rather than extractors.
The more serious rifles (.470 Nitro, .450/400, etc.) are noticeably heavier, but that's not a bad thing since they'll certainly recoil more. The ones I looked at had ejectors and were priced at $5500.
In both cases, the stock dimensions seemed to suit me quite well.
The thing I DON'T know is their reliability . . . I've read a few (and I do mean FEW) reviews on these things, and they SEEM to be working OK. But then again, I've had some ugly experiences buying new guns that the gun rags touted, but which turned out to be troublesome pieces of . . . well, you get the picture.
DM~
Member
They are having a host of problems, keep reading and you will find out how lots of owners are returning them! Those guns WILL end up back forsale, and i bet they WILL be on sale, but guess what you are buying???
DM
451 Detonics
Member
Regulating barrels is actually very easy today with the use of computers and lasers. My gun smith use to rebarrel Merkel SXS shotguns to .450 Basic and said by using laser it was a simple matter to regulate the barrels. Some double rifles like my Valmet use a wedge system allowing the shooter to regulate for whatever load he wants himself. I believe the Bakial SXS doubles are using a wedge system as well.
DM~
Member
First off, if you do some research on DR's being built today, you will find out you cannot do proper regulation useing lazers and it's far from "simple". You can watch many U-Tubes from DR mfg. regulateing DR's. See if you can find one useing a lazer with good results. Perhaps useing a "lazer" is why Sabbati is having so many problems.
I've regulated a LOT of Valmet DR's, so i have a good understanding of what it takes to regulate a Valmet DR. They aren't always easy either, unless you do it all the time like i did.
The Ruski DR's only regulate for horizontal regulation. (and it's halfazzed for that) If you need vertical regulation, you are either SOL, or do like some owners do, and get a BIG pipe wrench, and start twisting, hopeing you don't ruin the bbls.
When it comes to DR's, you DO get what you pay for!
DM
Gordon
Member
I too have a Cogswell and Harrison .470 built in 1928 and sold thru the British Army and Navy stores. It is very plain as SxS large bore rifles go, but has been 3" at 100 yard accurate in the 40 shots I have fired in 25 years I have owned it. The SxS format loads quicker than an O/U as the barrels have to droop much less and you have easier access to chambers. I learned the hard way NOT to shoot OLD heavy recoil guns much in the 1980s as the walnut can , and will, crack around the tang even on these extended and reinforced DGR guns. I once had a .577 Bore Howdah pistol that I fired twice, at $1000 a shot! The stock started to split and Butch Searcy told me that ALL old walnut becomes brittle with age!
Hizzie's Russian 30-06 LOOKS really cute IMHO!
Hizzie's Russian 30-06 LOOKS really cute IMHO!
451 Detonics
Member
Evidently my gunsmith figured out how to do it using lasers, his guns...I saw three of them being shot at our Ernest Hemingway Memorial Shoot...were perfectly regulated for 75 yards, normal result were 2 shot groups of about 1 inch with virtually no elevation difference. Of course he was an excellent innovator, he also made my Browning BAR in 375/338, it has run flawlessly for over 2000 rounds now.
I thought regulating my Valmet in 9.3X74R was very simply. I adjusted it to bring the barrels together for windage first, then for elevation...if I recall it took less than 30 minutes.
HankB
Member
A salesman at Cabela's alluded to some problems with ". . . the end of the barrels . . . " on early rifles, but the issue was "fixed" now.DM said:
I found some posts about regulation by filing the crown
what but if you have links to other problems, and returns, please share!!
DM~
Member
I can tell you far a fact, the issues are NOT taken care of.... even if Cabela's would like you to think so. Cabela's has put some returned gun back in inventory, what happens to the others, at this point, is anyones guess?
Warr. on the guns is going to EAA, and they are NOT takeing care of the problems, at least not yet they aren't.
DM
Warr. on the guns is going to EAA, and they are NOT takeing care of the problems, at least not yet they aren't.
DM
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