double set trigger info/pics needed

[hboy35]

I am trying to fit a percussion lock to a family heirloom muzzleloader that long ago lost its lock. It is an octagon barrel muzzleloader, nice wood and brass, with no markings that I can find. It has double triggers.

I bought a replacement percussion lock off Ebay that is supposed to be for double triggers, and I am trying to figure out how to modify/fit the triggers to it to make it work. I was able to shape the lock face to fit the recess, so it "looks" complete from the outside--I just need help getting the triggers mated up to it.

I would like some diagrams, pictures, or a reference to a good gunsmithing book that has that information. I am pretty handy with tools and have a pretty complete shop to handle this project--just need the knowledge of how the double trigger mates to the lock internals.
thanks

 

[Duncaninfrance]

If you posted some pic you would probably get more help. It's easier to comment on an image than just a description.
Duncan

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The rear trigger should look like an inverted L. When you pull it, the tip (forward-pointing short leg of the L) catches in a notch in the front trigger. Light pressure on the front trigger releases the L, which snaps up under spring pressure to hit the sear bar -- that's the bar sticking out to the left of the lock (as you look at it from firing position.)

If the arm of the L has clearance and reach to hit the sear bar, the gun will fire. It's that simple.

Your lock should have a fly in the tumbler -- this is a tiny piece of metal that prevents the sear nose from re-entering the half-cock notch as the hammer snaps forward.

In addition, you may have a hump or "flag" on the front trigger which would allow you to fire the gun with the triggers unset. If you do, be sure this hump can also contact the sear bar.

 

[hboy35]

thanks

I am trying to attach a picture. We will see. Thanks for the great information in the last post--you are very helpful. I am just now getting the nomenclature down for all the parts. My triggers in the rifle are just how you described them. Not so sure I can make this lock work, though. Feel free to comment.
thanks

 

[Vern Humphrey]

That's a good quality lock, with a bridle (the part facing us, with all the screws going through it.) It should work fine.

What is it that isn't working? When installed in the stock, will it cock?

If it will cock, can you install it without the trigger mechanism and trip the sear with a screw driver through the trigger slot?

Next, re-install trigger mechanism, and hold the lock beside the lock mortise so you can see clearly where the internal parts would be if it were installed. Activate the trigger and see if the rear trigger would actually hit the sear bar.

 

[hboy35]

just getting started

The lock works fine out of the stock. It will cock and fire by tripping the bar on the inside. No worries there. I just have major mods to make to get the triggers to match up to it, I believe.

Question: the forward trigger has a notch in the end of it, similar to the lever in the lock that catches the hammer and holds it cocked. Am I supposed to match this notch in the trigger with the notch in the hammer mechanism, or do both triggers activate (match up to) the lever sticking out (sear bar)?

Please forgive my ignorance....

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Question: the forward trigger has a notch in the end of it, similar to the lever in the lock that catches the hammer and holds it cocked. Am I supposed to match this notch in the trigger with the notch in the hammer mechanism, or do both triggers activate (match up to) the lever sticking out (sear bar)?

The notch in the forward trigger catches and holds the short, forward pointing arm of the rear trigger's L. With the triggers out of the stock, you should be able to cock the triggers, then trip them, and watch the short arm flip up.

Is this your problem? Are the triggers not setting and tripping?

For the front trigger to fire the rifle unset, it must have a "flag" that bears against the sear bar and allows it to be cammed upward when the front trigger is pulled. If it lacks that flag, you can only fire the rifle with the triggers set.

 

[hboy35]

aaahhhhhh!

Is this your problem? Are the triggers not setting and tripping?



Yes. I am not sure that they can be set or tripped right now. I will check that tonite when I get home. All I remember about them is that they have spring tension against them when you pull them, but nothing "sets or trips"....

Could be missing parts....

I will give it some study this weekend. Many thanks for your help.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I think we've got this one solved.

First, check your set screw. this is the screw between the front and back triggers. It projects downward. Screwing it in reduces pull weight. Screwing it out increases pull weight -- the problem may be that it's just screwed in to far.

Next, check the forward trigger catch -- the top of the trigger should be shaped like a figure 4. The short arm of the reat trigger should be sloped down and back at the front, with a sharp, clean top edge. The back slope bears on the front trigger's 4 slope, forcing it slightly forward against its own spring. As you continue to pull the rear trigger, the front trigger will snap forward slightly, capturing the tip of the rear trigger under the horizontal section of the 4.

Both front and rear triggers should have springs -- the rear trigger spring should be quite stout. All the engagement surfaces should be clean and crisp.

 

[hboy35]

thanks

I am going to work on it this weekend. Will report back monday. Many thanks for all the helpful advice, Vern Humphrey.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Let me know how it goes.

By the way, when you're in Pflugerville, stop by the Spring Hill restaurant and say howdy to my brother, John.

 

[hboy35]

wow!

what a small and wonderful world. I will stop in next week, maybe. I work about 3 miles from the restaraunt. Heading home to Hutto right now.
take care

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Small indeed -- our cousin owns the place.