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Double Standards for Google

Discussion in 'Legal' started by FCoelho, Jul 11, 2003.

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  1. FCoelho

    FCoelho Member

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    Hello,

    Thought I’d share an interesting experience I just had with Google…

    With the launch of our website I thought it would be a great idea to purchase key words from Google. The way that works is you set up an account with Google AdWords and then pick key words or phrases that you feel your site falls under. When a person using Google types in a word or phrase your company then appears on the top of the right side of the screen under “Sponsored Linksâ€. If the person then clicks on your ad you pay for that click through. Sounds simple enough so we came up with some key words and phrases to see what kind of response we would receive.

    The new ad campaign went live and we started watching it to see if it was worth the trouble and cost. No sooner was our campaign up and running when I noticed it was gone. That was followed by an interesting e-mail from Google. Turns out they felt that some of our keywords did not meet their guidelines. Specifically the terms: Ammo, Gun accessories, and folding knives. Further in their e-mail it said the following…

    -> Content: At this time, Google policy does not permit the
    advertisement of websites that contain "blowguns, ammunition with
    propellant (such as gunpowder), blank ammunition, Gun part/hardware:
    (clips, magazines, receivers, stocks, barrels, buttplates, grips,
    mount, forends, and handguards)". As noted in our advertising terms and
    conditions, we reserve the right to exercise editorial discretion when
    it comes to the advertising we accept on our site.

    -> Keywords: Google Policy does not permit the advertisement of "ammo,
    gun accessories, folding knives". It isn’t permitted in ad text or
    keywords. We have therefore disabled the keywords listed above.


    They go on to say…

    Please read below for definitions of the issues we found:

    Unacceptable Content: Google believes strongly in freedom of expression
    and therefore offers broad access to content across the web without
    censoring search results. Please note that the decisions we make
    concerning advertising in no way affect the search results we deliver.

    Unacceptable Product as Keyword: Google believes strongly in freedom of
    expression and therefore offers broad access to content across the web
    without censoring search results. Please note that the decisions we
    make concerning advertising in no way affect the search results we
    deliver.


    Wow, very interesting stance. They are okay with having all kinds of content and sites listed with them but they will not allow certain key words used. I then went back to Google and did a few searches. Turns out we are not the only ones. Under “ammunition†I saw that Federal Cartridge was a sponsor. At least for a little while. About an hour later their ad was gone. Under ‘folding knives†there are four sponsored links. I wonder if their time is running out too.

    I just felt that I should pass along this very disturbing situation from Google. I wonder what’s next, no displaying of firearms or ammunition related websites? Hmmmm…
     
  2. Tommy Gunn

    Tommy Gunn Member

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    We need some pro-2nd Amendment nerds to come up with a better search engine.

    It used to be Alta-Vista was the best just a few years ago. I think its time for Google to to fall on the wayside with those other search engines.
     
  3. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    I just googled a few terms to see if Adlinks pop up.

    Tomahawk is banned

    The following had Adlinks pop up:
    --sword
    --slingshot
    --crossbow
    --mace
    --war axe
    --hatchet

    Google needs to work on its consistency.

    Keep after 'em. Grip loud and long.
     
  4. Sergeant Bob

    Sergeant Bob Member

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    Just for grins I googled "pedophile ssex" (accidently double tapped the "s") to see if they allowed that . It came up with all the XXX sites you could never want to see.

    When I corrected the spelling, it was mostly news and research type stuff?

    Guns and ammo bad, pedophile sex OK? It appears they are not so "high and mighty as they purport to be.:barf:
     
  5. braindead0

    braindead0 Member

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    You misunderstood the issue. Google indexes everything, it's the 'Ad Links' that they censor. When you searched for "pedophile ssex" it does not return any 'add links' which appear on the right of the page.

    For an example search for 'book store' and you'll see a ton of 'sponsered links' on the right.
     
  6. FCoelho

    FCoelho Member

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    Well, it just keeps getting better. After redoing our ads for Google and eliminating the offending words, they came back to us with this…

    At this time, Google policy does not permit the
    advertisement of websites that contain "airguns and ammunition". As
    noted in our advertising terms and conditions, we reserve the right to
    exercise editorial discretion when it comes to the advertising we
    accept on our site.


    There you have it. I think that would fall under the category of "Anti-Gun" don't you?
     
  7. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Google, which practices anti-Second Amendment bigotry, is the search engine I use when all others have failed.
     
  8. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    You guys ought try Teonma!
     
  9. FCoelho

    FCoelho Member

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    I never heard of Teonma. At the risk of coming across ignorant, is this a new search engine?
     
  10. Telperion

    Telperion Member

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    For those of you interested in why Google is anti-gun, read this article from Wired about its cofounder, Sergey Brin. Here's a choice quote:

    There are certainly a few arrogant men here in Silicon Valley, but for Brin to decide he is the sole judge of good and evil is the height of self-righteousness.
     
  11. tyme

    tyme Member

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    Not that he's right, but he isn't claiming to be sole judge. He controls Google. He can do whatever he wants with regard to Google's business decisions. He could refuse to do business with the Chinese. He could refuse to do business with companies that help the disabled. Civil rights are not, and should not be, considered in b2b relations.

    Teoma is interesting, but when I looked at it last year it was hardly a "one stop search engine." I guess I'd better check it out again.
     
  12. Orthonym

    Orthonym Member

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    Well, what can we do about it?
     
  13. Telperion

    Telperion Member

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    tyme -- "Sole judge" was excessive. But if you're a Google user, he's judging for you. Ultimately, you're right -- it's (largely) his company, and he can choose to do with it what he wishes.
     
  14. CGofMP

    CGofMP Member

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  15. Jeff

    Jeff Member

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    Help is here,

    I'm in the process of creating a search engine, with the assistance of some rogue MIT-educated technicians, which will be called Guns, Knives, Liquor, Smokes, Harleys, Sirloin, Tits, Wrestling, M-80s, and Venison Stew.

    Do you think the title is too long?
     
  16. jimpeel

    jimpeel Member

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    I use dogpile.com ever since this thread came out on TFL:

    Google is with the antis

    Since that time, there were many other threads on the same subject or which mention the google anti-firearms policies. Most of these have links to other search engines that TFL subscribers have encountered.

    *sigh... Google goes anti.

    Anti Gun Google and HR Block Petitions - Go sign 'em!

    Google boycott mentioned on Techtv

    Google Adwords: using the Internet to slaughter the antigun movement

    Sometimes you hit the jackpot on Google!

    Google prohibits 'laser sights'
     
  17. sm

    sm member

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    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
  18. Travis McGee

    Travis McGee Member

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    So to Google buttblugs and sadism outfits would be okie dokie, but olympic target pistol sights would be a no-no.

    What a crazy world we inhabit.
     
  19. jimpeel

    jimpeel Member

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    Travis McGee

    "buttblugs"? I think you got the "p" upside down.;) :D
     
  20. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    So whaddya do when you find out Google is the search engine behind some of the others?
     
  21. braindead0

    braindead0 Member

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    Google will index any site, it indexes mine.. The only issue here is their 'ad links', which I see no problem in them doing what they want with.

    Use Google, and never click on any ad links, I see no problem. If nobody used the ad links then they would change their position. There's no sense boycotting Google, there is in boycotting the ad links.
     
  22. Triad

    Triad Member

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    Actually it does make sense to boycott Google. It was explained to me that everytime you perform a search, that search is added to the statistics they keep on how many people use their engine. They then use their statistics to convince people to advertise with them. So by not totally boycotting Google you are still giving them business and putting money in their pocket.
     
  23. jimpeel

    jimpeel Member

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    At one of the links I posted above, one of the TFL posters placed the following:
    So I went there and downloaded their free basic program and ... YOW!!! This thing is as awsome as he stated.
     
  24. Sven

    Sven Senior Member

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    I use Google AdWords for my (non-firearms related) business and it has been the greatest thing we've done in years for sales. We are in a small niche and it is hard for people to find us - not anymore.

    I need to eat and pay for rent, so I cannot 'boycott' Google. It is their right to decide how they run their business, and all of our decisions on whether to support them.
     
  25. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    I took the advice and downloaded Copernic.

    Unbelievable search engine. It leaves Dogpile way behind. Google is a distant memory. Yahoo is a joke

    Copernic is all I use now. Truly outstanding product. You can save searches, modify searches, change how results are presented. Highlights key words used in search. Great search file management capabilities. And the Basic version is a freebee.
     
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