Dream Revolver, so close, yet so far.

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mcb

mcb

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My currently most used revolver is a S&W Model 10-11 4-inch heavy barrel. Its with me any time I am out at my hunting property. Its rugged, shoots well, carries nice, its just a smooth functioning and feeling revolver.

But my dream revolver would be my model 10 but scaled up slightly. The features of my dream revolver has never existed as a revolver but S&W has produced all the parts on other revolvers just never brought together in this particular configuration.

First the cartridge, 10mm Auto, This cartridge has the right balance of energy and bullet mass for what I want and already has a readily available short cartridge to pair with it and enables the use of moonclips (moonclips rule!). S&W has clearly made a 10mm Revolver with the S&W 610 but it's on the N-frame and though a fine shooting revolver (I own one) it's too big for the cartridge.

S&W made a 40S&W L-frame in the 646 but they chose to make the cylinder out of titanium and it had extraction issues at 40S&W pressures so 10mm Auto would have never worked but it proves the L-frame is larger enough for 6-shots of 40/10. Just use a stainless cylinder.

Now the frame need to be a fixed sight like my model 10. And S&W did make a fixed sight L-frame in the S&W 681.

So S&W has done all the parts I desire on other revolvers but have never brought them together in this form:

A S&W stainless-steel L-frame with fixed sights, and a round butt. Chambered in 10mm Auto and with a 4-inch full underlug barrel. Hogue rubber grips. Standard cylinder release. Wide smooth trigger. Spurless hammer. Crain ball detent. Simple, rugged, smooth.

-rambling
 
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Seems like you'll need to commission the work, then. Support your local gunsmith!

I do wonder why you want fixed sights on a 10 mm gun... 38 Special, in your 10? That, I can understand. But on something that could be shot out to 50 yards pretty well, why would you want to have to manually compensate? Along that line of thought, here's your revolver:
https://ruger.com/products/gp100MatchChampion/specSheets/1775.html

As for the cylinder extraction issues on the 646, titanium is stronger than steel per unit thickness, so why would a stainless cylinder help?

If you don't have the money to commission the work, I think you should just use the 610. I don't think it is too big for the highest power 10 mm cartridge. 10 mm is a LOT more powerful cartridge than 38 Spl.
 
Smaug said:
Seems like you'll need to commission the work, then. Support your local gunsmith!

I do wonder why you want fixed sights on a 10 mm gun... 38 Special, in your 10? That, I can understand. But on something that could be shot out to 50 yards pretty well, why would you want to have to manually compensate? Along that line of thought, here's your revolver:
https://ruger.com/products/gp100MatchChampion/specSheets/1775.html

As for the cylinder extraction issues on the 646, titanium is stronger than steel per unit thickness, so why would a stainless cylinder help?

If you don't have the money to commission the work, I think you should just use the 610. I don't think it is too big for the highest power 10 mm cartridge. 10 mm is a LOT more powerful cartridge than 38 Spl.
Click to expand...

Fixed sight for their bomb proof ruggedness and very low snag resistant profile and low to bore axis. So many of my revolvers are fixed sight I have grown use to and fond of them. Learning the "hold" is just part of shooting them. I zapped an armadillo last weekend with the old model 10 at nearly 40 yards holding for range and knowing my model 10 shoots to the left edge of the front sight at 25 yards.

Titanium (grade 5) has roughly the same yield strength as properly heat treated 416 stainless (assuming S&W is using similar alloys). But in either case we are operating well below the yield strength of either material. The part that cause the problems is Titanium has roughly half the modulus of elasticity that stainless steel does. In this case that means the the titanium cylinder will elastically stretch a greater amount than a stainless steel cylinder will under the same loading conditions. This stretches the brass just a small amount more and even with coatings the coefficient of friction between brass and titanium is greater than brass and stainless. This adds up to sticky cases.

Yes 10mm Auto is a lot more cartridge than 38 Special but I really like both 10mm Auto and 40S&W and having them in an L-frame they would get used more than they currently get used in my S&W 610. The 610 was bought as a "gamer gun" and in that role worked great. I even hunted with it a few seasons but for woods carry on a belt a 6.5-inch N-frame is just too much to carry. When I hunted with it I carried it in a chest rig. I think a 4-inch L-frame though bigger than my 4-inch K-frame would carry nearly as well.

As for the Ruger that is a very tempting revolver and I have nearly talked myself into one a few times. But reading about issues of it not reliably shooting 40S&W without special moonclips and being a S&W fan boy has always held me back.

Unfortunately no money to commission a one off revolver at this point. All that money is going into a new kitchen for the wife. Happy wife, happy life... :D

-rambling
 
I have a superb Colt Delta elite in 10 mm, I also have a Smith & Wesson 1006 in 10 mm of course, and I've also got the Smith & Wesson model 610 4" but the best one I've got is the 4" Ruger GP100 Match Champion in 10 mm, it rules, best revolver I've ever had and as scarce as hens teeth. I paid a premium to get it.

I would also like to have a 4" S&W 686 in 10mm even if it was only a five shot.
I have also been looking for a six shot 4" S&W 686 in .357 magnum. Screw the 7 shot Plus.
 
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I'm curious why, if your 38 Special M-10 is doing most everything you need out on your property, you need to go all the way to 10mm? I would think you're dream L-frame would be just dandy chambered for 40 S&W. I would bet it would be more controllable than a 10mm and still provide superior ballistics over any 38 Special, even the old 38-44s with their 158g @ 1125 fps. My understanding is 155g 40 S&Ws will reach or exceed that performance.

I'm one of those cranks that never bought into the "versatility" craze of 38 Specials in 357 Magnums or 44 Specials in 44 Magnums. I prefer 38 Specials fired in guns chambered for that cartridge and 44 Specials fired in dedicated 44 Special revolvers. Hence my preference for a version of your dream revolver set up for Mooncliped 40 S&Ws.

YMMV,
Dave
 
Dave T said:
I'm curious why, if your 38 Special M-10 is doing most everything you need out on your property, you need to go all the way to 10mm? I would think you're dream L-frame would be just dandy chambered for 40 S&W. I would bet it would be more controllable than a 10mm and still provide superior ballistics over any 38 Special, even the old 38-44s with their 158g @ 1125 fps. My understanding is 155g 40 S&Ws will reach or exceed that performance.

I'm one of those cranks that never bought into the "versatility" craze of 38 Specials in 357 Magnums or 44 Specials in 44 Magnums. I prefer 38 Specials fired in guns chambered for that cartridge and 44 Specials fired in dedicated 44 Special revolvers. Hence my preference for a version of your dream revolver set up for Mooncliped 40 S&Ws.

YMMV,
Dave
Click to expand...

I like the 10mm cartridge and if it was chambered thus I would likely use if for the occasional deer hunting. For general woods carry I would probably just down load 10mm cases. That said if S&W made the above but only chambered it in 40S&W I would be almost as excited. I like 40S&W as much if not more than 10mm Auto.
 
wcwhitey said:
Sounds like a S&W Model 58 4” fixed sighted .41 Magnum. A Law Enforcement revolver of yesteryear. An N Frame Model 10.
Click to expand...

Close but scale it down to L-frame. I have a bunch of N-frames and love them but they are too big and heavy for comfortable belt carry.
 
mcb said:
Close but scale it down to L-frame. I have a bunch of N-frames and love them but they are too big and heavy for comfortable belt carry.
Click to expand...
Understood. Why do I remember fixed sighted blue 586’s (probably a different model number). Foundation for a build. Moon clips would be the bomb.
 
Onty said:
How much steel is left underneath dovetail for rear sight? Ruger revolvers are famous for their sturdiness, but this one doesn't impress me.
Click to expand...

Yeah I would rather have a top strap like the regular fixed sight GP100. No need to weaken the top strap for that sight, just machine it right into the top strap.

GP_1.jpg
I like the looks of this fixed sight GP100 if it had a 4-inch barrel.
 
value-p-1450636.jpg
This is really what I am after but chambered in 10/40. And a round butt grips, those look like round to square conversion grips.
 
I wish they had a modern 3" barrel Colt King Cobra, with glass smooth action w/ fixed sights....new and improved action made for smoothness and durability....but here's the kicker....it would have to have rubber grips that mold to my fingers perfectly, and lastly, a brass beaded front sight....... If only....
 
mcb said:
My currently most used revolver is a S&W Model 10-11 4-inch heavy barrel. Its with me any time I am out at my hunting property. Its rugged, shoots well, carries nice, its just a smooth functioning and feeling revolver.

But my dream revolver would be my model 10 but scaled up slightly. The features of my dream revolver has never existed as a revolver but S&W has produced all the parts on other revolvers just never brought together in this particular configuration.

First the cartridge, 10mm Auto, This cartridge has the right balance of energy and bullet mass for what I want and already has a readily available short cartridge to pair with it and enables the use of moonclips (moonclips rule!). S&W has clearly made a 10mm Revolver with the S&W 610 but it's on the N-frame and though a fine shooting revolver (I own one) it's too big for the cartridge.

S&W made a 40S&W L-frame in the 646 but they chose to make the cylinder out of titanium and it had extraction issues at 40S&W pressures so 10mm Auto would have never worked but it proves the L-frame is larger enough for 6-shots of 40/10. Just use a stainless cylinder.

Now the frame need to be a fixed sight like my model 10. And S&W did make a fixed sight L-frame in the S&W 681.

So S&W has done all the parts I desire on other revolvers but have never brought them together in this form:

A S&W stainless-steel L-frame with fixed sights, and a round butt. Chambered in 10mm Auto and with a 4-inch full underlug barrel. Hogue rubber grips. Standard cylinder release. Wide smooth trigger. Spurless hammer. Crain ball detent. Simple, rugged, smooth.

-rambling
Click to expand...
It sounds as if you are describing My Dream Revolver ... Look at my avatar
A Model 58 S&W , blue steel , 4" heavy barrel , fixed sights in 41 Magnum / 41 Special !
It may not have the full under-lug barrel but with the heavy barrel it doesn't need the full under-lug . Been carrying it for a few decades now ... I love it !
The grips are Kim Ahrend's Retro-Combat in dark Rosewood ... Sweet .
Gary
 
mcb said:
Close but scale it down to L-frame. I have a bunch of N-frames and love them but they are too big and heavy for comfortable belt carry.
Click to expand...
How about belt/leg carry? (Think cowboy) Leather thing around the leg maybe?

Or vertical shoulder holster?

Would be easier to figure out how to effectively carry what you’ve got than get another gun.
 
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I think an L frame 10mm would be a nice option. I would prefer it to be 41mag than 10mm though. I have both the 686+ & 69. In addition to a Taurus 415 41mag. The Taurus is a five shot that is between the k&l frame in size but has 2 1/2" barrel. I would think that there would be enough cylinder to make the L frame a six shooter.
 
WisBorn said:
I think an L frame 10mm would be a nice option. I would prefer it to be 41mag than 10mm though. I have both the 686+ & 69. In addition to a Taurus 415 41mag. The Taurus is a five shot that is between the k&l frame in size but has 2 1/2" barrel. I would think that there would be enough cylinder to make the L frame a six shooter.
Click to expand...

41 Mag is barely going to fit in an L-frame. If you're running cartridges with max SAAMI spec rim diameter you're going to chance having rim-lock as was seen in some of the 7-shot 357 Mag GP100. Definitely doable but that would something that would have to be looked at closely.
 
wcwhitey said:
Understood. Why do I remember fixed sighted blue 586’s (probably a different model number). Foundation for a build. Moon clips would be the bomb.
Click to expand...
wcwhitey said:
Understood. Why do I remember fixed sighted blue 586’s (probably a different model number). Foundation for a build. Moon clips would be the bomb.
Click to expand...
Model 581. I saw a beautiful one on GB a while back but more than I was willing to pay.
 
If people didn’t dream about new styles or caliber combos we would alll still be shooting hand gonnes. :)

My dream gun is a 4” L frame 6-shot .41 Special with a half lug barrel.

This won’t happen at S&W either, and I doubt I will ever find a custom gunsmith to do it..:(

But like someone above posted, we can always dream..:thumbup:

Stay safe..
 
Let me pass on something my Daddy said when I was complaing about something years ago ...
" Son ... I hate to tell you this ... but nothing in life is perfect ... nothing ...
not even your dear sweet Saint of a mother who I love with all my soul .
But don't tell her I said that . "
Gary
 
Smaug said:
As for the cylinder extraction issues on the 646, titanium is stronger than steel per unit thickness, so why would a stainless cylinder help?
.
Click to expand...
Stronger but springier. As a result, in high pressure cartridges the chamber expands a bit, and when it snaps back, the case is held very tightly.
 
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