Driving cross country with a handgun?

[MikeJ]

I would like advice and opinions on this subject. My wife and I will be leaving in a couple of weeks for a cross country trip to Minnesota from Arizona and plan on taking the lesser traveled highways and backroads to get there. I have visited Packing.org to get some general information about state to state laws regarding traveling with a handgun in a vehicle, I may be back for some clarification on a couple of those states, and I understand that according to Federal law if I keep the handgun unloaded and locked in my trunk I'm ok. How does this apply to a SUV that doesn't have a trunk per se?

My other dilemna is that since the purpose of having a handgun is for protection should I break down along the highway etc., an unloaded locked up gun isn't going to do me a lot of good now will it? Any and all responses, hopefully knowledgeable ones, will be greatly appreciated.

 

[GEM]

Without a license in certain states, the gun can't be kept immediately available and IIRC, having loaded mags is iffy in some places.

One can check on the laws about having a loaded long arm in the car. That's different in places.

Also, one might consider a quickly loaded long arm. It's been discussed before. For example, a coach gun and a box of shells can be put into action quickly and has a nice deterrent look.

I also suggest that you get a big can of a good OC for immediate close range access.

 

[outofbattery]

The best way to keep on John Law's good side is to just make sure that it is reasonably inaccessable from the passenger compartment and in a locked case when in gun unfriendly places . In my Discovery , I keep the pistol case in one of the side storage bins in the wayback and , if possible , pull the cargo cover closed .

Most gunshops seem to have the Travellers Guide to Firearms Laws ; it's worth the $12 or so but don't trust it as sole legal advice .

 

[Kurt S.]

I've driven an SUV for about 8 or 9 years now- neither one I've owned had any kind of locking storage.

Our summer vacations usually find us driving to Indiana and Kentucky to visit family. When we go to IN first to visit my wife's family unfortunately the quickest route from Houston takes us through unfriendly Illinois. I always have at least a .22 handgun and rifle in addition to my normal CCW (was a "truck gun" before CCW) because I like to do some plinking when we get to KY. I used to just unload and lock up the handguns in their cases and put the cases in the luggage at the MO-AR border. ( kept the rifle unloaded and in a locking case). Then reverse the whole thing for the CCW gun at the IN-IL border. The whole thing was a huge PITA. And I really never felt comfortable crossing IL with just a flashlight and a harsh vocabulary for defense.

Coming back is no problem, it's either my CCW is honored or the state I'm passing through is gunfriendly.

This year I decided to go through western TN and KY on US highways and the Kentucky Parkways rather than take the interstate through IL and MO. It added maybe an hour or 2 to a trip that's normally almost 2 full days anyway and we got to see some pretty country.

Point I'm trying to make before this is take a little time and use that Packing.org info and a road atlas to plan your trip out. Stay safe!

 

[madkiwi]

Notwithstanding any state or local law, a person shall be entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm if the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

Source NRA-ILA Federal Gun Laws

Loaded mags will generally be OK IF they are not in the gun or near it. In other words, loaded mags in a seperate locked container (doesn't have to be locked, but locked means the cops can't open it without a warrant. Why make it easy?). However, in CA or similar freedom-hating states some activist judges have interpreted loaded mags as being the same as loaded guns. The ridiculousness of that position will be shown the first time they try to bust someone who has loaded mags in the car but no actual firearms.

I also have an SUV. A trunk IS a locked container. Since we don't have one we have to use locked gun cases or bags.

A police officer can search without permission "anything within the immediate control of the driver" for his own protection. Open bags on the front seat, glove compartment. Anything else they need your permission, so he'll have to send you on your way unless he has reasonable suspicion to arrest you. So if you smell like pot, or are wearing a roach clip as jewellery, or he sees blood all over the back seat, well you get the picture.

When driving with guns I tend to load the gun cases first, then put the rest of our luggage on top. You KNOW if you are pulled over they will eyeball the back of the car as they walk up to the front window, so just make it harder for them to find an excuse to harass you. (However, if you are driving in an area with lots of gun racks with actual guns in them then this probably isn't necessary. I live in California though, so I don't even have an NRA sticker).

If you are driving through any National Parks you should be aware that there are some real antis in the park service. They have interpreted the law in an odd way. 36CFR2.4 states that:

unloaded weapons may be possessed within a temporary lodging or mechanical mode of conveyance when such implements are rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use

Now see how this is interpreted:

In order to transport weapons through NPS areas they must be dismantled and adequately cased or packed in such a way as to prevent their use.

Source NPS Weapons regulations

I don't know if anyone has ever been busted on weapons charges in a NP because of this overzealous interpretation, but I doubt it would make the evening news, so it is possible. More than likely it would only happen if the Park Service were looking for enhanced charges to hit someone up on. They also say you are supposed to declare weapons when you enter the park, I did it once and the sweet young lady smiled and said "that's nice" and handed me my maps and receipt. No paperwork, no red tag to hang off your rearview mirror. Therefore I say don't bother. If it becomes an issue later I will say I told the person at the entrance.

Remember, I am not a lawyer, I only play one on the internet. So use common sense.

madkiwi

 

[R.H. Lee]

Very comprehensive post by madkiwi. It seems the bottom line is you have to balance your expectation of needing the firearm for immediate self defense against your expectation of being caught with it by some state or local authority.

If you need it, but can't get to it and load it in time, you and/or your familiy stand some chance of being killed. OTOH, chances are fairly good (providing you are defensive in your driving and always aware of your surroundings-"conditon yellow") you won't come close to needing it. Of course if you drive carefully and pay attention to what's around you, chances are you won't have any LEO encounters, either. You can conduct yourself in such a manner that you draw neither the attention of the BG's or LEO's.

You just have to balance one risk against the other, and make a decision.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Where does it say all that in the Second Amendment?

 

[Mulder]

Go West, young man.

North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Utah, Idaho, Colorado, and Arizona will recongize the carry permits of most other states (you'll want to check packing.org to verify).

Also I believe in New Mexico, your vehicle is considered your domicile, so open or concealed is okay inside your car. Just don't open carry into a restuarant, as it's a felony. IIRC, a couple of other states along the way are open carry also, such as Nebraska.

Check the laws before going, and keep a copy in your vehicle.

 

[steveno]

obey the speed limits and the chances of you being stopped are slim at best. use common sense for the rest

 

[Ian]

I have a, uh, friend who drives cross-country to and from school a couple times per year. He just leaves a loaded pistol under the driver's seat of his vehicle. That makes it accessible enough in case it's needed, but out of sight to anything but a physical search of the vehicle. No reason it should be found unless he does something seriously illegal, which he doesn't plan to do.

When he sleeps at rest stops, you can bet that the pistol is easily accessible as well.

FWIW, in Colorado, Arizona, and New Mexico, open carry is legal inside a vehicle. Check packing.org for specific legal details for other states.

 

[Sistema1927]

To modify Mulder's post, you cannot carry openly (or even concealed with a NM CCW) in any place in New Mexico that has a liquor dispensing license. However, since the liquor licensing laws are so screwed up here, most of your stop-and-rob and grocery stores have dispensing licenses, even if they don't dispense, and you will be convicted of a felony if you carry.

However, if the establishment, say Mickie D's, doesn't sell liquor, you can carry openly legally. In populated areas, like Albuquerque and the "City Different" (Santa Fe) you will get some strange looks, and possibly some hassle. However, if you wander into the cafe in Quemado (along with several other out of the way places), they will look at you strange if you DON'T have a sidearm strapped on (Nobody in Quemado sells alcohol, so you are OK).

Carry your weapon of choice, openly or concealed, while you are in your vehicle, and use your common sense for open carry while out of your vehicle in NM.

 

[Das Pferd]

I think it would help if you said what states you were going through instead of everyone guessing.

 

[MountainPeak]

AND, if you have a CCW. For example in NM, you are ok in your vehicle loaded, concealed, or open, with or without CCW. Don't get caught in ND doing that! Check it out!

 

[MikeJ]

I will be traveling through Colorado, Nebraska, South Dakota and into Minnesota. I do have a CCW permit from Arizona.

 

[Majic]

He just leaves a loaded pistol under the driver's seat of his vehicle. That makes it accessible enough in case it's needed, but out of sight to anything but a physical search of the vehicle. No reason it should be found unless he does something seriously illegal, which he doesn't plan to do.

About the worst place you can put a handgun. If you have to brake hard (something you sometimes absolutely have to do) the handgun can slide forward and wedge itself or get kicked under the foot controls compounding the problem.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Mike, you should of gotten your Florida CCW permit.

When we went back East to Ohio my Arizona and Florida CCW permits covered me 90 percent of the way.

Enjoy your trip.

 

[Mannlicher]

If you are serious about your safety, and that of your loved ones, then you cannot let local laws decide for you how vulnerable you are. Do as you wish but for me, I decide on my protection, not someone else.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

I like vehicles without trunks. You can then carry the handguns inside your passenger compartment in a locked case. Briefcase on passenger seat, Glock inside with slide locked back. Loaded mag inside door pocket (with rag concealing mag from view).

If stopped by police, can shut the case and spin the combination lock with one hand. If indeed it was ever open -- because if it was open, it may be considered loaded. Though it can be loaded in actuality in a very short time indeed. Especially if you practice a little.

And it is completely legal everywhere, due to FOPA '86.

 

[Ian]

Majic - In some cars, there's a ledge in the floorboards placed just right to prevent a pistol under the front seat from sliding forward.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I like vehicles without trunks. You can then carry the handguns inside your passenger compartment in a locked case. Briefcase on passenger seat, Glock inside with slide locked back. Loaded mag inside door pocket (with rag concealing mag from view).

...

And it is completely legal everywhere, due to FOPA '86.

I don't think so.

My bookmark to the actual FOPA is on a different computer, but if memory serves, the locked case must be in the luggage area or somewhere not within the immdiate control of the driver. More than likely to prevent precisely the scenario you are claiming is legal.