Dumb Question about reloading the 308

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

arinx

Member
Joined
May 15, 2008
Messages
14
Hi guys, I have been reloading for about a year and it has all been straight walled pistol rounds. I recently purchased a 700 SPS-v and decided to start reloading the 308 as well.

I am using H414 Powder w/ 165 grain bullet in the Lee book it says "start 48.0 grains"

Well once I measure out 48 grains and funnel it into the Case the powder goes right up to the start of the neck .

Since I have only reloaded handgun loads and they never come this close it worried me a bit.

I set my bullet seat die w/ a empty round to exactly 2.75 but w/ the charged case It was at 2.86 so i had change that as well.


Is all this normal or am i screwing up somewhere.

Thanks guys
 
arinx,
According to my Modern Reloading book by Richard Lee your .308 Winchester case has a useful powder capacity of 3.43cc. It also says that your H414 powder takes up 3.14cc of volume for a 48.0Gr load. That only leaves about .29cc of space left over for whatever else. The book also lists the higher load as a compressed load, whatever that means, maybe someone with more experience can answer to whether a compressed load is a good or bad thing. Regarding the length, the book also shows a minimum length for that load is 2.750 and your case maximum length is 2.810 also according to the book. If I read your post right the 2.86 would exceed the Maximum length by 0.05".

I hope this data helps. Use it at your own risk. I just figured I could give a second form of reference for you. I think if it was me I would try to use a different powder if you have it available, maybe something like H4895 which gives a similar velocity with a charge of only 41.0Gr and takes up a volume of only 2.98cc.

Good luck! I hope it works out good for you.

Mikey!
 
Thanks Mikey I did not realize this was a compressed load, this would also explain why i had to adjust my bullet seating die.

Are compressed loads any more dangerous than regular ones?
 
Uh, we need RC in here. Too many variable and too little info.

Compressed load is where the powder charge is compressed when the bullet is seated. i.e. a full case of powder prior to seating. Can be all right or not, all depending on the application (BP is almost always ok to compress).

A near full case is a good thing for powder ignition- within safe parameters. They aren't like pistols with light charges of TG barely covering the bottom of the case and still work fine.

If your starting at the minimum load value, and have checked at least a couple sources on this, you should be good to work up from there. And OAL is not so critical on a non-magazine fed bolty vs a mag gun. More important is bullet ogive distance to lands on finished handloads for the particular rifle.

Justin
 
I just tonight picked up quickload. When I plug in .308, 2.86 overall length, 165gr bullet, H414 at 48.0gr, I am showing a 1.9% compressed load and pressures being 1000psi over max at 61136psi. I would back down a bit from that load. I get 47.7gr as the MAX load. The suggestion I follow is 10% less than max which would put a starting load around 42.9gr and work your way up. I am new to quickload though so I would love to hear what others have found in their manuals as well.
 
Thanks Mikey I did not realize this was a compressed load, this would also explain why i had to adjust my bullet seating die.

Are compressed loads any more dangerous than regular ones?
Click to expand...

compressed loads are fine if they were worked up in a lab and listed in a manual. I would however check in a day or two to make sure the bullet hasn`t moved back out of the case. Compressed loads will at times press on the bullet with enought force to move the bullet. If it happens though you will notice it sonn after loading, say a week or so. Also if you gently tap the case full of powder or use a drop tube the powder will stack more tightly in the case and wont require as much compression.
 
compressed loads are fine and in some instances may be preferable.

length of 2.86 is fine. check feeding and fit in the magazine, check chambering - look for marks on the bullet/ease of closing the bolt. at your level of expertise, you don't want to engage the rifling. if the round fits the mag box, feeds ok, and does not engage the rifling, no problems w/ loaded length.

i very rarely... actually never, load to published max length specs in rifles because i seat to the rifle's max length - part of why we handload is to tailor the load to the rifle - and begin working on accuracy from there.

check fit/function of the loaded round. don't sweat compressed charges. to get more powder in the case, slow down the rate at which you fill the case or use a drop tube.
 
The suggestion I follow is 10% less than max which would put a starting load around 42.9gr and work your way up
Click to expand...

Not such a good idea. Hodgdon list a start load of 48gr and a max of 52. 42.9 is way to far below Minimum. Going below Min can be as dangerous as going above Max. Start at 48gr as per Hodgdon and work up.
 
According to my Modern Reloading book by Richard Lee your .308 Winchester case has a useful powder capacity of 3.43cc.
Click to expand...

Case capacity (and hence pressure using a specific load) varies greatly in different makes of .308 brass. Lake City and IMI are on the small end of the spectrum, and Winchester and Black Hills generally has the greatest case capacity. A load perfectly safe in Winchester brass can develop excessive pressure in Lake City brass. When looking at load data in reloading manuals, always note the brass used, and never give out load data without specifying the brass used.

Don
 
Hodgdon's webside does Not list 52 gr. as a compressed load. Starting is 48.0gr of H414 for the 165gr bullet. Start low, work up with the powder charge. More info on the 308 here> http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html The Brass used can make a big difference as what USSR has said.
 
Last edited:
Not such a good idea. Hodgdon list a start load of 48gr and a max of 52. 42.9 is way to far below Minimum. Going below Min can be as dangerous as going above Max. Start at 48gr as per Hodgdon and work up.
Click to expand...
The point was check multiple resources. Mine say 48 is over MAX and yours say its MIN. That's why its good to have multiple sources.
 
IMO, H414/Win760 are just a tad too slow for optimum results. At a Hodgdon site starting load of 48gr, you already are having to deal with altering your COAL. You may not be happy with the resulting velocity and you have very little "wiggle room" to increase the charge due to case capacity.
The 3 powders that are most efficient (highest velocity) in the 308 with 165gr bullets are Reloader-15, H4895 and Win 748 according to a reloading pay site of which I'm a member. Velocities exceeding 2800fps are possible with a 24" barrel.

NCsmitty
 
The point was check multiple resources. Mine say 48 is over MAX and yours say its MIN. That's why its good to have multiple sources.
Click to expand...

That is why I gave what I had as far as different info from my book. Just because it is in a book doesn't make it fact. Which is why there are different volumes of reloading books. If it was me I would try not to use that powder... but I am anal about stuff like that. I would rather try to use a powder that uses about 80% of the volume for a starting load so I have some room to work up. This way if Min doesn't work the way you want, then you can tailor your load a bit to improve it. Just my opinion. :)

I may be a newbie when it comes to reloading and firearms, but I am not short on common sense.

Anytime something can explode or cause personal injury, take the safest road you can and work your way up in small steps and leave room for error whenever you can. Makes sense to me!

Mikey!

BTW my book showed a starting load of 48Gr and a max load of 52c Gr as well. This is where the "c" denotes "Compacted load". The starting load is not designated as being compacted only the Max load is designated as compacted.
 
Thanks guys picked up a powder drop tube today going to give it a shot ... also may just switch powders.



Thanks guys


Edit: if it matters i am using lapua brass.
 
Edit: if it matters i am using lapua brass.
Click to expand...

Yes, it matters. Lapua .308 brass is on the low end of case capacity, with little more than LC brass. If you are looking at load data developed with other commercial brass, then use slightly less powder.

Don
 
Use any data here at your own risk
Click to expand...

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

There are alot more effecient powders on the market. Using Benchmark has a start of 38.5 at 40,200 cup compared to 48 grains with 43,500cup. So you are starting out with 9.5 less grains of powder and 2,300 less in cup pressure. With a total loss of expected velocity of 78 fps. Varget is another good choice. IMHO any time you need that much powder to gain very little in velocity at a cost of higher pressure is probably not your best choice. Hodgson's site can give you a wide variety of load data for about anything you could want. It is a great resource I have been using Varget and Reloader 15 and have been able to develope some very accurate loads with these two powders.
 
Last edited:
Another good one is IMR 4064, I run compressed loads with this stuff, 44 grains, 168 gr SMK, great accuracy, velocity, and overall performance.:)
 
Last edited:
With a 165 grn bullet in that 308... w748 or 3031 or Varget all work very well... good luck busting caps...
 
Thanks again guys.. think il just switch powders if i can find some lol
 
+1 on using multiple references.

Not rifle, but I was working up my first reloads for my 45ACP.
Using the Lyman's manual I had loaded up a few incremental test loads using Unique, but then thought to go look at the Alliant website as the loads seemed a bit low.
For whatever reason, Lyman's had set the whole charge range a couple of grains low of max, and offset the minimum downward the same amount.

Once I looked in my copy of the Sierra manual, I found that the MAX was listed as the same as the recommended max on the Alliant page, and once I started test firing loads from the minimum of the Sierra book, it actually cycled the slide on the pistol, which the Lyman's loads would not do.


Long winded reply summarized, use multiple sources, and load safely?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

74man
  • Locked
Reloading weight question
Replies
15
Views
430
FROGO207
FROGO207
P
  • Locked
Practice hunting bullets
Replies
9
Views
503
Ol` Joe
O
D
  • Locked
Question about 9mm and Unique
Replies
3
Views
608
jeepmor
J
H
  • Locked
reloading for 7.62x51
Replies
8
Views
3K
Glockula
Glockula
O
  • Locked
reloading Sub-Sonic 308 Win. with light bullets
Replies
13
Views
3K
wrench459
wrench459
Back
Top