Duplex load in 1860 Colt

[MW3840]

I just read a back issue of 'Guns' magazine from 1960 regarding an 1860 Colt.
The writer was using a duplex load of 2 grains of Red Dot smokeless powder under 30 grains of FFF black powder in each chamber, and topping it with a .44cal. round ball. He claimed this load shot very clean.

My question is, has anyone here has ever heard of it from some of the oldtimers or used it themselves.

 

[DoubleDeuce 1]

I would advise against it. What would the real benefit of doing something like that be? If you shoot, you'll have to clean the revolver anyway. One or two extra passes with a cleaning rod and brush isn't much when you think about it. Different pressure builds for different powders... There is a reason they are marked "BLACK POWDER ONLY". That is what the gun is proofed for. You might get away with it for a little while, but is it worth the risk...

 

[Don McDowell]

Have duplexed cartridge guns, but I'ld be really hesitant about duplexing a capnball gun, and especially the soft iron originals

 

[Patocazador]

I have used a duplex load in my Old Army but it was 5 gr. of 4FG followed by either Trail Boss or BlackHorn 209. It was to try to get good ignition of Trail Boss and BH 209 by using 4FG as a "priming charge" with percussion caps. In both cases I didn't get the results I desired.
Those who shoot smokeless muzzleloaders like the Savage ML-10 sometimes use a duplex charge of Bullseye followed by another smokeless powder. I never had problems using straight 2400 or Vtvri 110 in mine.

 

[Acorn Mush]

I just read a back issue of 'Guns' magazine from 1960 regarding an 1860 Colt.
The writer was using a duplex load of 2 grains of Red Dot smokeless powder under 30 grains of FFF black powder in each chamber, and topping it with a .44cal. round ball. He claimed this load shot very clean.

I recall reading some stuff like that way back when. Never tried it then, won't try it now, wouldn't recommend it EVER! Smokeless pressures can get away from you real fast and can get you or someone else hurt. A little bit of that stuff goes a long way.

Just enjoy your BP arms as they were meant to be enjoyed, with real BP or even a sub. Leave the smokeless to the cartridge boys. It's only a fad anyway. It'll pass.

 

[EljaySL]

I don't really see the risk/reward being there. I'm a fan of duplex loads in the sense of adding a bit of real black to get a substitute going if you need to stretch your real black. But just using regular smokeless to modify the behavior of real black is a solution in search of a problem...

 

[Don McDowell]

Duplexing with smokeless under black got to be a popular thing to do in the 40's and 50's when good black powders had pretty much disappeared. So they started using a 10% smokeless charge of 4759,4198 or 3031 under the balance of the black to get the velocity up and get the fouling down. It does work but with todays powder it's a mute point.
They also had to duplex black under smokeless in the early smokeless days, as the primers commonly available were designed for black powder and would not reliably ignite the smokeless ,but if they put a little kicker charge of black under the smokeless that would get them good ignition.
Ned Roberts speaks of this in his Schuetzen Rifle Book, and you can find information on duplexing smokeless under black in some of the Ideal/Lyman reloading handbooks from the 40's and 50's.

 

[rcflint]

Years ago in my young and foolish days, I duplexed a Zouave 58 cal. rifle. Some 2400 under 2fg, I forget the amount. It recocked the hammer, so I figure the pressure was a bit high.....

 

[swathdiver]

What's your goal? 1000fps? You can do that without pure BP of one type; it just needs be the right type.

 

[kituwa]

I agree with swathdiver,,you can get over 1000fps with plain old 3f triple 7 . Thats no toy load at all and perfectly safe. I think alot of guys get the feeling that a cap n ball gun isnt that powerfull because most of them dont kick a lot.Visit a civil war grave yard and see the row after row of head stones, it makes you really stop and think.

 

[Library Guy]

Duplexing powders has always seemed to me like dating two women at once. The theoretical benefit does not outweigh the inevitable blow up.

 

[kendak]

I get 6 shot 2" 25yrd. gps. off the bench at 1050fps. with my Pietta 1860 loaded with 40grs. Pyr."P" using lubed 144gr. RB loaded directly on the powder no patch ...how much more do you want ?...take care Kent

 

[Crawdad1]

Kendak, are you not using a wad over the powder because of space limitations in the chamber? And how much room do you have left in the chamber using 40 grains of pyrodex?

 

[rodwha]

I'm not positive, but I think 40 grns and a ball is max with an 1860.

 

[kituwa]

40 grains is max in a 1860 but you can get the same thing or more with 35 grs of T7 and still have plenty of room for a greased wad under the ball. My 1860 pietta still has the stock nipples and with35 gr of T7 it shows signs of way too much gas coming out of the nipples, blows caps apart and i noticed when my son was shooting it yesterday that one time it even half cocked the hammer when he shot. I think if your going to be shooting many loads over20 or 25 grs then you need to put better nipples on them. I dont own any uberti guns right now so i dont know how the stock nipples are on them.

 

[kendak]

if you tap the cyl. just a little bit you can get 46grs. in it ...my measure spout holds 20grs. so just dbl. dump ..theres room for a wad I just don't use them....been using a lubed ball since 1961 in my other pistols ..lube on the outside is a waste of time after 2 shots its gone...I can use the lubed rb & put a couple of drops of Moble 1 on the front of the center pin & shoot 50 or 60 rounds with no problems...I use the same load of 3/7 & run about 1125fps. over the crony....BP runs 1000fps....do the same with my ROA but put 50grs. in it & it will outshoot almost all my M&P's but my custom jobs. ...take care Kent

 

[Noz]

This is playing "hot potato" with a hand grenade. Sooner or later person or equipment are going to get hurt.

Shoot the black powder guns as they were intended to be shot.
If you need a magnum, Ruger makes a nice 44 or 480.

 

[white smoke]

I use a duplex load of sorts in my ROA. I too advise against modern smokeless powder in any front loader. I use 2 grs of Gator Powder (7F) flash powder under whatever load of 3F I use and get a really clean ignition and burn. Can't use factory nipples though, it falls right through the flash hole. I use ampco nipples.

 

[swathdiver]

Meant to write last night that you can use real BP of one grade and get over 1000 fps.

 

[kendak]

thanks for your concern I have several .44 mags ...don't like squib loads ...I hunt hogs with BP & use the same load range or hunt ...since 1966 I shoot maxed to the wall & have never blown one.. if it goes I'll buy another one ...take care Kent