Duty to Inform the LEO if Carrying on Official Contact
- Thread starter IJ1981
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I can totally understand someone having a bad day at work.
I still don't volunteer that I'm carrying or have a gun in the car.
In 52 years I have been stopped by cops just doing an investigation 3-4 times. Tag light dim, swerving within my lane, whatever excuse to ask a bunch of stupid questions.
Let's just take the last one. I was pulled over and the cop eventually told me someone had burglarized a business. The real reason he stopped me was driving on a state highway past the industrial park the business was in. Like a thousand other white trucks driving down that highway every day.
Let's say I volunteered that I had a gun, before he started asking me where I was going, where I was coming from, etc.- there's a good possibility he's going to take it "for his safety" and check to see if it's stolen. A friend of mine spent a half hour in the back of a police car in Orlando because the cop entered the model number in place of the serial number, and it came up stolen. That was a simple misunderstanding. He's lucky he didn't get arrested or leave the gun with the police for an investigation.
It's better off if I don't give someone a reason to ask a bunch more stupid questions.
trackskippy
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I don't know how to say this gently, so take it however and it is what it is. It seems to me, just by the tone of stuff like this, that a lot of people seem to be OK with being subservient to the government and their minions. This isnt how things are supposed to be, and why are you dealing with them with a "hat in your hands" attitude?
This isnt the third grade, and you dont have to show your hall pass to everyone on your way to take a leak. But that seems to be the mentality with a lot, if not most people. I get the impression a lot of times, that people like to show off things like a carry permit, because it shows (in my best George Carlin voice) they are special and they follow the rules.
Oh, look, Im a good little boy, I have my pass, or permission to do this or that. You need their permission to do what is supposed to be a right? Seriously? This is the major problem these days, and in all directions, and exactly where the powers that be want the populace to be, whipped, fearful, under their control, and afraid to do anything, without asking their permission first.
Old Dog is right, in a traffic stop, you dont have to give them anything other than whats required for the stop. And then ****. They arent there to be your buddy and aren't concerned with your well being, and anything they ask you is to get you to give them any reason to take things further, if thats what they want. By all means, be reasonably pleasant and courteous, but dont expect any favors or think your "hall pass" is going to get you any favors. Do your job, write the damn ticket, and let me be on my way.
I get so damned aggravated anymore when I see all this silly crap going on and people thinking its OK that "we, the people" arent the top of the food chain, and that the people who supposedly work for us, are somehow in charge of us now.
This isnt the third grade, and you dont have to show your hall pass to everyone on your way to take a leak. But that seems to be the mentality with a lot, if not most people. I get the impression a lot of times, that people like to show off things like a carry permit, because it shows (in my best George Carlin voice) they are special and they follow the rules.
Oh, look, Im a good little boy, I have my pass, or permission to do this or that. You need their permission to do what is supposed to be a right? Seriously? This is the major problem these days, and in all directions, and exactly where the powers that be want the populace to be, whipped, fearful, under their control, and afraid to do anything, without asking their permission first.
Old Dog is right, in a traffic stop, you dont have to give them anything other than whats required for the stop. And then ****. They arent there to be your buddy and aren't concerned with your well being, and anything they ask you is to get you to give them any reason to take things further, if thats what they want. By all means, be reasonably pleasant and courteous, but dont expect any favors or think your "hall pass" is going to get you any favors. Do your job, write the damn ticket, and let me be on my way.
I get so damned aggravated anymore when I see all this silly crap going on and people thinking its OK that "we, the people" arent the top of the food chain, and that the people who supposedly work for us, are somehow in charge of us now.
There is no duty inform here.
I know people who receved only warnings after heving been puppled over for speeding--when thye did inform.
i do know that if I I am asked to exit the automobile, I do not want the officer to learn that I am carrying when he sees my OWB concealed firearm momentarily exposed.
To me, it's a no-brainer.
"Subservient to the government"? Hah.
I know people who receved only warnings after heving been puppled over for speeding--when thye did inform.
i do know that if I I am asked to exit the automobile, I do not want the officer to learn that I am carrying when he sees my OWB concealed firearm momentarily exposed.
To me, it's a no-brainer.
"Subservient to the government"? Hah.
Charlie98
Member
In Texas, as a CHL holder, I am required to inform LEO that I'm carrying in the event of something relevant... accident, crime, etc. I got pulled over recently and had my CHL ready with my license... no biggie. I was also in an accident recently; when the cop showed up I mentioned to him that I was carrying and he just shrugged his shoulders and said 'everyone is, these days' and he didn't give it another thought. I just told him that I don't like surprises, and likely he doesn't either... and I was just being courteous.
I don't really care either way. It does not infringe on my rights to carry, and informing a LEO that I have a piece seems like a reasonable precaution for them. There are some states I travel to, or through, that do not require it... and that's OK, too.
I don't really care either way. It does not infringe on my rights to carry, and informing a LEO that I have a piece seems like a reasonable precaution for them. There are some states I travel to, or through, that do not require it... and that's OK, too.
SunnySlopes
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Oklahoma. We have duty to inform. I've been pulled over for speeding. By the time the police officer walks up to the car I have my right hand on top of the steering wheel in plain view. My left hand is sticking out of the window holding my driver's license and CCL. Then I tell them I have a sidearm OWB on my left side.
The first time, the police officer took both licenses, looked at the CCL, handed it back and asked what kind of gun I had. I told him a Sig Sauer P239. He got all excited and started talking about his Sig collection. And I got all excited and told him about my Sig collection. He gave me a warning and we both went our way.
The second time (fairly recent), the police officer took both licenses, looked at the CCL, thanked me and handed the CCL back. He went to his cruiser, ran the check, came back and gave me a warning. Then he pointed to my (new F-150 pickup) and said, "That's my favorite color." (It's a new color: "Area 51 blue.") And we talked about trucks. His wife wants a Bronco in that color. He wished me a good day and I said, "Be safe", and we went our respective ways.
It's no big deal in OK. Maybe if you're amped up on crack it might be a big deal. But otherwise....
The Night Rider
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It was the State Patrol.
I've only ever had really one bad run in with a CSPD guy and really it wasn't my run in. He brought a patient to Aspen Point one night and clearly, he did not like her because while she was in the evaluation room he was walking up and down the hall and every time he passed her door he he pretended that he was drawing his Gun and shooting her in the head.
I had a parking enforcement officer try to give me a ticket for parking at the substation at the base of the Manitou Incline once but I showed her my utilities contractor ID and explain to her that I was there to do a security check on the substation and she let it go.
I've never had any problem with anybody from the Sheriff's Department or anybody from CSPD. When I worked at Propane I used to watch the SOs practice vehicle drug searches at the Chuck Brown building on Akers.
I helped a State Patrol Cop drag a deer out of the Highway down by the Nixon Power Plant one night . One of us antlers broke off and she told me I could take it home if I wanted.
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The Night Rider
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The best answer I can give to this question is if the law says that you should inform you should obey the law.
having said that I think it's a dumb law. I don't see what purpose it serves.
having said that I think it's a dumb law. I don't see what purpose it serves.
KevininPa
Member
Always had a feeling that you were in Pa
That's a good point. While I am wary of volunteering any information besides something that actually involves the traffic stop, I will notify that I have a firearm if asked or if it is going to be exposed.
I do think if your gun is sitting like a paperweight on top of your registration and insurance card in your glovebox, there are better ways to handle that.
papaairbear
Member
In Oregon we’re (currently) not required to advise. But, I talked to a leo, who said to just provide the CHL with the drivers license when asked. He said he’d ask where it was, then proceed with why he stopped you. But I know some officers who are far more “authoritarian”. As stated: YMMV..
stonebuster
Member
Roscoe
but seriously, there isn't a duty to inform, unless asked in Ct. I've wrestled with whether to inform before being asked or not. I normally keep my wallet on top of the console next to my driver's seat while driving in case I get stopped. I don't want to have to reach into my back pocket and maybe expose a gun on my right hip especially if I hadn't informed the LE I had a CC permit. My biggest fear is the officer might think i was reaching for my gun which is inches from my wallet. If I had forgotten to put my wallet on the console I would choose to inform the officer & ask how he wanted to proceed before reaching for my wallet.I'm usually a bit nervous when I get pulled over, which hasn't happened in many years
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Old Dog
Member
The duty to inform came about fairly recently; I think it was thrown into the state laws when a lot of the more recent shall-issue laws were being considered (remember the Florida headlines: "There will be blood in the streets!" - like there wasn't already, given the South Florida cocaine wars that preceded Florida's shall-issue law).
The clause was written in the laws as kind of an appeasement to the nervous nellies in the legislatures (read that however you want) and the media -- "Look, the citizens will have to inform cops they are carrying!" "That way there will be no misunderstandings!" -- as though it makes a difference, as any bad guy or someone otherwise illegally packing, would never volunteer the information.
Washington and Indiana, by far the oldest and original "shall-issue" states, never had a duty to inform.
I understand how the clause got written into the laws. Does it serve a purpose now? Probably 99% of the time, no. Has it (rarely) created drama where none should have occurred? Quite possibly (the partner who only hears the word "Gun!" and escalates the encounter, or the rookie who has not yet learned to read a situation and says or does something stupid).
Yes, there will always be the tiny minority of control freaks in the business of policing who may make the encounter far more painful for both sides than need be.
But really, guys, at the end of the day, it's still a fairly benign thing, requiring a citizen to simply state that they are legally carrying a firearm. Some of y'all object solely on principle ("I'm a free 'Merican, dammit, the government doesn't need to know my business") and that's all well and good. But that posture sometimes gets what should be an uneventful encounter turned into a negative, possibly even fatal, situation.
As noted by some members, even in a state with no duty to inform, calmly volunteering the information that you are legally carrying might even make your encounter with your local gendarmerie a bit more pleasant, almost like an unexpected social interaction (the best part would be no citation forthcoming). I get that it's annoying to be pulled over. But I submit that, if everyone is being honest, few among us have ever been pulled over for no reason. I'm accountable. Every single time I've been stopped for a traffic violation (speeding, California stop), I deserved it. I got pulled over once for a headlight out, another time for not having current tabs -- both times, I knew about it, but had procrastinated fixing things.
I dunno. Just another topic in which we're all guilty of way overthinking.
I know, it's our Constitutional right to bear arms, but is having to disclose that fact in the middle of the night to a nervous lone deputy on a country road in the dark woods truly infringing on your rights?
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AlexanderA
Member
Indeed. This is a serious problem, and one that applies here in Virginia as well. For example -- my wife, who has nothing to do with guns, might be driving a car that has me on the registration. If I have a carry permit, the presumption at a traffic stop, then, would be that she might be carrying. This could get her into trouble given her unpredictable personality. In fact this is the #1 reason I haven't gotten a carry permit.
Old Dog
Member
I missed this. No, it will come up when your driver license is entered.
LimaCharlie
Member.
Oregon does not require notification, but the dispatcher informs the officer if the registered owners have an Oregon Concealed Handgun License. It has never come up when I have been stopped. I have been given a warning the last few times I have been stopped. I haven't had a ticket in over twenty-five years.
.308 Norma
Member
Thanks, Old Dog!
I don't know how many times I've heard (and read) about a person's license or permit to carry will come up when the police officer "runs" their vehicle's license plates. And I never could figure out how that worked when a good many vehicles in this country are registered in both spouse's names, yet only one of the spouses has a license or permit to carry.
That's the way it was with my wife and me for a few years before I went ahead and got a CCW license myself. Around election time, my wife was working some pretty late hours in the County Elections Office, and there's a 30-mile stretch of lonely highway between here and town that she had to drive. So, she got herself a CCW license and started carrying a revolver in her purse. She had to lock the revolver in the car when she got to work though - the Elections Office is in the County Courthouse, and even though both she and I have Idaho "Enhanced" CCW Licenses now, we're still not allowed to carry there.
Funny thing - I've got to go to the very office my wife used to work in this afternoon, and I'll have to leave my gun in the car with my wife while I go in. I'm going to decline jury duty (I'm 75 and allowed to do that now) because they summoned me for jury duty during deer season this year!
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They are.
I don't think informing them offers any value on a simple traffic stop. If they haven't asked you to get out of the car then they won't know and don't need to know because it has zero relevance to the fact that you were going 10 over or have a taillight out. It's only when they ask you to get out that I think it's important to disclose.
Follow your state laws but if I lived in a state where there was no duty to disclose I wouldn't say anything unless I was ordered out of the car. In that case I'd say something along the lines of I'll get right out but I just want to let you know I have a concealed carry firearm/weapon/gun. The specific words aren't nearly as important as the tone and the demeanor.
Old Dog
Member
This being the key to any citizen-LEO encounter.
crstrode
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Actually, all it takes is your name. Enter a name and ALL the info comes up. It is not just the cops on scene - the dispatch folks update the data feed in real time for all responding officers and emergency services. Big Brother is watching.
AlexanderA
Member
The sequence of events is quite different. The plates would be run before the LEO approaches the car, while (obviously) the driver's license would be run after the initial face-to-face encounter has taken place. It seems that the gun information would be useful at the earlier stage.
It depends on how it's run. Typically dispatch will run the plates as well as the registered owner which is most often the driver. If the driver is someone else then yes that information won't be known until approaching and IDing the driver.
Not all states flag concealed carry permits on the driver's license and just because your state does doesn't mean that it will show up if you are stopped in another state.
AlexanderA
Member
A common situation is that a car will be registered in the names of both the husband and wife. Either one might be the driver. That might lead to a discrepancy, when the driver is not the one with the gun carry license. Usually that would not be a problem, but under just the right circumstances, it might be.
