e-mail to S&W regarding new 686

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WebHobbit

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Below is a copy of the email I sent to S&W about my new 686:

From: "WebHobbit" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: new 686-5, Barrel to cylinder gap
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:22:59 -0500


Hello.

I recently bought a new Model 686-5. I took it to the range and put about 100 rounds of .357 Magnum factory loaded ammo through it. The ammo in question was mostly Remington 110 grain SJHPs with a few Winchester 110s and about 20 Remington Golden Saber 125 grain JHPs. After about 60 rounds or so the cylinder started to bind up. Opening the cylinder and pushing all the rounds flat, turning the cylinder and then closing up again would allow me to continue firing. Then a few minutes later it would do the same thing.

I figured this was due to crud build up and a very tight barrel to cylinder gap. So when I got home I checked it with a feeler gauge and it turns out it was VERY WIDE. It measures .008. :(

Isn't this out of spec?

Should this be returned to the factory for adjustment?

If I do send it back to have the cylinder gap tightened how much would S&W want for an action job while it's gone? The DA pull is very heavy.

Thanks for any help you can offer!


--

Larry Robertson Jr.
(address deleted)
Evansville, Indiana
47714
812-(phone number deleted)
Click to expand...
 
I'd be very interested in what S&W has to say about your problem; I'm told that binding with a .002 gap after 40 rounds is common - with a .008 gap, not knowing much about guns, it seems to me that the "common" then becomes the uncommon. Right now I'm thinking about buying a 686-5 4" with a gap of .004 - it has been shot but is in like new condition in the box with papers - the seller wants $389... Too Much?
 
oldfella,

I have a 686-5 6", probably 500 rounds through it. Never had a problem. Also just bought a 686-1 4" unfired better trigger than the -5 paid $375.00 plus tax, hope this gives you an idea. I paid $350.00 from S&W on the -5 model on a deal they cut because I had a .38 model K blowup so I can't speak to the price of your -5 but I know a new one would be more and -1 thru -5 are the most desirable 686's.
 
Opinions please!

How long you all think before they reply?

A buddy of mine has suggested that binding after firing that many magnums may be "normal" due to heat expansion. Is that possible?

:scrutiny:
 
e-mail to Smith

I've questioned Smith in two e-mails in the past two months. I got courteous replies in two or three days.
Can't help with your other question,
John
 
Check-Point's?

It's quite possible that a heavy build-up was deposited
around the forcing cone, or underneath the star shaped
extractor. Also, make sure that the ejector rod is tight-
and make note it has left-handed threads.

Don't know what kind'a time frame you should expect;
but I would be willing to bet it will be prompt and very
courteous!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
why dont you just call them up and avoid the wait on an impersonal e-mail. I had a question so i got on the phone and talked to someone with out waiting. He answered my questions and gave me all the info to return the gun if it needed it.

Craig
 
I e-mailed a question about something a few months ago to S&W. They answered back in two days.
 
I agree about S&W's fast and courteous responses to emails. Last night I emailed them, asked about book prices for used 686-5 4", I received their reply early this morning - their response: "In excellent condition $325; in good condition $275"... that helps.
 
Why not shoot it until the cyl starts binding and then put it up to the light and look at the BC gap. If you see light then gap isn't the problem. Mark your charge holes somehow to see if binding occurs only at certain point on cyl or if it is random. This could eliminate cyl facing or wharp or miscut problem.
 
I got a reply today!

Hi,
The bc gap should be .004" - .010". We would suggest returning for
examination per the attached instructions.
thanks
kf
Click to expand...

And here is what the attached Word DOC said:

Smith & Wesson


Dear Sir/Madam:

We have received your e-mail regarding your S&W handgun. You note that there is a problem with your handgun or you are requesting some work to be performed.

We would like you to forward your handgun with a letter describing the problems along with your return address (No P.O. Boxes) and phone number. You may return the handgun to our facility by contacting FedEx at 800-463-3339 to request pick up at your location or take the parcel to a FedEx facility or Authorized Ship Center. When you complete the FedEx airbill, in Section 7 indicate "bill to recipient" and insert your return number as xxxx-xxxx. The package must be shipped using FedEx Priority Overnight service. There will be no charge to you to return the handgun. Address the parcel and the FedEx airbill to:

Customer Service
2100 Roosevelt Avenue
Springfield, MA 01104

After examination of the handgun, if we find any manufacture defects, the repair will be covered under our warranty policy. We will then make any necessary adjustments to ensure the handgun is returned to our manufacturing standards.

If this repair does not fall under our warranty, then a repairman will contact you with an estimate to repair the handgun.

If you need any further assistance in this matter, please feel free to call our toll free number 1-800-331-0852.

Yours truly,

Kate Fredette
Technical Service Division
Click to expand...

".010" is NORMAL???????????????????

***?

:uhoh: :banghead: :cuss:
 
I'm sorry to say, b/c of .010" doesn't even come close to the worst I saw when shopping for a new 66 a few months ago (brought my feeler gauges with me). I saw one at .014". Also saw a lot of wobbly cylinders in lockup, some rough triggers, honestly I saw a dozen guns I would not touch before I found one that was "decent". The owner of the range I belong to said he is having problems with SW quality in the recent months.

FWIW: SW may be right that .004 - 010 is the service limit, but a new gun should be around .006" in my humble opinion.
 
I E-Mailed S&W a couple of weeks ago about the poor finish on
my new 686. I never did get an answer. The one side of the gun
looked like it was finished with a wire brush. It had a lot of light
scratches. I was able to polish them out with scotch brite.
 
Before the MIM and "the agreement" when S/W quality control was considered world class gap was to be .006 with a .003 tolerance (.003-.009). Now that it's gone to hell in a handbasket the standard is .004-.010 ;)

.008 is fine. On a defense revolver I'd rather have that gap than a .003 any day. You have a problem obviously but gap aint it. It is a shame that you have to return something new that should be right from the factory, hopefully they will fix it right first attempt.

One question, did you measure the gap of opposing cylinders to get the .008 figure or just one??? Sometimes stuff don't come out square when it should...
 
You didn't say anything about having cleaned the gun!!!!!!
Before sending it back to S&W for an expensive "cleaning" I suggest you do the following.

After using a patch to clean, wettening the cylinder and bore surfaces, clean "gently" with a quality bronze bristle brush. After cleaning and swabbing dry the cylinder and barrek with patch(s), using a soft nylon bristle brush (ie: tooth brush or M-16 cleaning brush) with the extractor extended, clean under the extractor.

Most of the time I find that a S&W revolver that is "binding" is due to something under the extractor.
Not because of "Loose" tolerances, but because of a lack of them.

As for cylinder/barrel gap, I set my MATCH GUNs to 0.045" when setting them up. This precludes binding of the barrel cylinder. I also prefer a slight amount of "looseness" in the end-shake. I had a M-14 rebarreled to a 4" heavy lug barrel by the Performance Center in 2000. After about 1,000 rds it began to bind. The barrel/cylinder gap had gone from .002" to 0.000" on one chamber. After opening the gap to .003, everything is now fine and accuracy unaffected.

Quite a few years ago when handgun shiloutte (sp?) shooting was the rage, and Dan Wessons' popular, a test was run on effect of BC gap and velocities. The effect on velocities was as expected- any increase over about .003" diminished velocities- but not as much as expected. Accuracy seemed much less affected than expected without much change till it exceeded 0.15". However of more concern is the "SPRAYING" of lead and powder that accompanies this.

The .008 gap is on the large side, but within spec's.
Clean the gun thoroughly, and refire. If it still binds, send it back!
You'll proabably get a new barrel, and maybe a trigger job of sorts to boot.
(Suggestion, when sending it back, don't ask for a trigger job, they'll charge you for it; Complain about the "HARD AND ROUGH DOUBLE ACTION TRIGGER PULL"! They will probably do the trigger job under warranty. :D

I know of several aquaintainaces that have done this. Just don't expect a 8lb D/A when it comes back, just a cleanup and smoothing out. You'll have to replace the rebound and hammer springs to get the light pull. Then, dry fire, dry fire, dry fire....... to finish the job.
 
"Most of the time I find that a S&W revolver that is "binding" is due to something under the extractor."

Amen. Clean under it very thoroughly (use a tooth brush) and keep that side of the ejector rod dry (don't oil it). I've found if you oil it that rod when you knock out th empty cases, some of the hard carbon falls on the rod and sticks. It ends up under the star and you will have binding.

"As for cylinder/barrel gap, I set my MATCH GUNs to 0.045" when setting them up. "

I believe that number would be .0045", and I agree that is dead perfect.
 
I sent my gun to S&W via FedEx Overnight a while ago.

I did NOT ask for the trigger job but I did complain about the "very hard and rough trigger" in the letter I packed in.

I'm hoping I'll get that "free trigger job" under warranty.

I also hope it doesn't take too long!

Can anyone here tell me if they will email/call me or something when they ship it? How does that work? Who here has sent one off to S&W?
 
Yikes! I got out a set of feeler gauges tonight used for checking spark plugs and measured the cylinder gaps on my revos. Here is what I found:

686-5 - 0.008
586-? - 0.010
638 - 0.008
331 - 0.009
629PC - 0.006

Colt Python (1962 manufacture) - 0.004

Ruger SRH - 0.007

I didn't realize these gaps were that excessive. I always liked my 686 and 586. Now I find out that I have been losing velocity and possibly accuracy. Not happy.
 
WebHobbit

I recently sent a handgun to S&W for repair. They did not notify me of its arrival. They later sent a detailed estimate of repair costs in a letter. I suggest you contact them by phone to verify arrival. Be sure to have the guns serial number handy when you make the call as that is how they track them internally at S&W.
 
I've had great results contacting S&W; mainly by phone & also a few emails.

They have been really terrific about this with me. I can't compliment them enough, and wish other businesses & industries still conducted themselves the way S&W does.
 
Well Kate Fredette of S&W replied to my email today. I asked her for confirmation of my gun's arrival and also asked her to keep me updated of it's status via email.

She said they got it last Thursday and that their turn-around time is 8 days. She added that they had Friday off (of course). So I guess I should have my 686 back Tuesday or Wednesday of next week.

Can't wait.

I have tried multiple times to get Kate on the phone and it seems she NEVER answers it. All I ever get is her voice mail (which she didn't answer).

She responds well to emal though which is fine as I prefer that to the phone anyway!

:)
 
I don't think the gap is the problem. I have had ALOT of Golden Sabres primers not set correctly and they binde the cylinder. Change ammo and try again.
 
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