RonDeer10mm
Member
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- Sep 12, 2010
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- 274
I want this gun but I've seen bad reviews about slides/frames cracking and EAA's horrible customer service and how this gun can't handle full power 10mm but is this still true about this gun? 
EAA Witness Match 10mm
- Thread starter RonDeer10mm
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RonDeer10mm
Member
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2010
- Messages
- 274
Can this gun handle a diet of full power 10mm? (buffalo bore,silvertips,double tap)
JoelSteinbach
Member
I love mine, never a FTF, reliable, and eats my hotest reloads. I had the front site changed to the fiber optic , and the gun is amazing, my 3rd witness 10mm. Its as accurate as my custom Delta (clark) and my 2 10 mmm kimbers. What a velue, never a problem
dallascj
Member
Not 10mm, but I did have a .45 Witness many years ago and it was an excellent gun. Very accurate, and the weight made the recoil almost unnoticeable. Sold it like a fool and it is one of the few that I really miss.
hardluk1
member
Most problems you read about are older designs and they shoot great. As good as many pristol at many times there price. Go to Brian Enss EAA forums Guys will help with sprig weights for heavier loads,or lighter. And visit henningshootsguns web site, Many of these guys take there shooting very seriously . Henning is a factory shooter makes acc. and sells many tanfogleo related items. You buy the 10mm you use to able to get aftermarket 9x25 dillion barrel and you can buy a 22, 9mm 40, 38 super/9x23 ,and 45 conversion kits and a 6" hunter barrel for that one frame.
AmEngRifles
Member
RonDeer, Glad you asked the question, and I too would like to see a few more responses from 10mm Witness owners. I have been contemplating a 10mm purchase myself.
A few of MY observations from owning all Witness calibers EXCEPT the 10mm.
Generally, the Witness series is a fantastic value across the board for all calibers. I have owned .45 auto, .38 super, .40 S&W, and 9mm. Don't think they have offered .357 Sig yet?
10mm should develop MUCH different recoil impulses than any other bullet combo. IF EAA put the proper engineering into the gun, they MAY have beefed up the slide a bit or even the lower frame in critical areas, as well as increase the recoil rate of the return spring. I do have some concern they just took their off the shelf design, in the large frame variant, cut it for 10mm and just upgraded the recoil spring. That does leave me worried about frame durability. The recoil velocity of the slide is probably much higher than any other caliber, but I am not engineer. Not really sure of that?
That being said, I may just buy one and torture test it for the sake of other readers. It will be under warranty by an existing manufacturer. Not sure what their warranty policy is, but I would push the envelope for sure. I was surprised when Colt took the 1911 and married it with the 10mm! Never thought they would hold up, but seems that they do.
I hope that a few more people that have 10mm Witness experience will chime in. I will say that I certainly don't like or trust the new round top Witness, that has less metal on it than earlier versions....so will look for the original.
Thanks!
A few of MY observations from owning all Witness calibers EXCEPT the 10mm.
Generally, the Witness series is a fantastic value across the board for all calibers. I have owned .45 auto, .38 super, .40 S&W, and 9mm. Don't think they have offered .357 Sig yet?
10mm should develop MUCH different recoil impulses than any other bullet combo. IF EAA put the proper engineering into the gun, they MAY have beefed up the slide a bit or even the lower frame in critical areas, as well as increase the recoil rate of the return spring. I do have some concern they just took their off the shelf design, in the large frame variant, cut it for 10mm and just upgraded the recoil spring. That does leave me worried about frame durability. The recoil velocity of the slide is probably much higher than any other caliber, but I am not engineer. Not really sure of that?
That being said, I may just buy one and torture test it for the sake of other readers. It will be under warranty by an existing manufacturer. Not sure what their warranty policy is, but I would push the envelope for sure. I was surprised when Colt took the 1911 and married it with the 10mm! Never thought they would hold up, but seems that they do.
I hope that a few more people that have 10mm Witness experience will chime in. I will say that I certainly don't like or trust the new round top Witness, that has less metal on it than earlier versions....so will look for the original.
Thanks!
hardluk1
member
Nothing wrong with the drsign that current . Much of the problems were all in the past and you hear the couple of people that had a problem and some bought there gun used so there no history or just older guns. You see the problem with 45's too. Much if not all is about matching recoil springs to the load used. withmany semi=autos. You might be better going to CZ or brian enoss forums to find more info. Both have a witness section there.
Peter M. Eick
Member
When I was experimenting with how powerful I could make a 10mm round, I used a witness. I loaded nuclear power levels out of the gun with no problems. I would not do it today as I am older, wiser and realize the limits of what a 10mm can do.
No questions the gun can take it though. Great guns!
No questions the gun can take it though. Great guns!
Nushif
Member
My 10mm has the polymer frame and as such has some issues with flex while firing full power 10mm rounds. I think that's the nature of the beast on this one, personally and I use as a range toy. But I do have plans to somehow get my hands on the 9mm upper and just use that for reliability.
As for their poor customer service for a while I was rather peeverized as well, until I realized something about their customer service ...
E-mail them. Every time I e-mailed them I got a response in a very reasonable time frame and their service was not bad at all. It just seems to me that this shop of two people handling all of EAAs firearms doesn't answer their phone. Can't say I fault them for that. So yeah, e-mail will produce decent customer service and as for the 10mm ... I think there really only is one platform that can be considered reliable across the board and at the same time is affordable.
As for their poor customer service for a while I was rather peeverized as well, until I realized something about their customer service ...
E-mail them. Every time I e-mailed them I got a response in a very reasonable time frame and their service was not bad at all. It just seems to me that this shop of two people handling all of EAAs firearms doesn't answer their phone. Can't say I fault them for that. So yeah, e-mail will produce decent customer service and as for the 10mm ... I think there really only is one platform that can be considered reliable across the board and at the same time is affordable.
AmEngRifles
Member
Bullet types
I have one other comment about the reliability of the 10mm, because I have this issue with the .38 Super.
My Super will eat all the FMJ I put in it, no problems, but when I switch to a hollow point, that is another matter. My gun absolutely HATES the Hornandy XTP bullet, that I love in everything else I load for! I tried polishing the ramp, but it still seems to dive DOWNWARD out of the mag and the angle at which it engages the feed-ramp is just too much for it to overcome, sooooo, that means if I load up the Witness for personal protection, it absolutely will only be with fmj.
I need to read the EAA gun board and see if anyone else has this problem.
I have one other comment about the reliability of the 10mm, because I have this issue with the .38 Super.
My Super will eat all the FMJ I put in it, no problems, but when I switch to a hollow point, that is another matter. My gun absolutely HATES the Hornandy XTP bullet, that I love in everything else I load for! I tried polishing the ramp, but it still seems to dive DOWNWARD out of the mag and the angle at which it engages the feed-ramp is just too much for it to overcome, sooooo, that means if I load up the Witness for personal protection, it absolutely will only be with fmj.
I need to read the EAA gun board and see if anyone else has this problem.
Peter M. Eick
Member
Interesting. My 38 super Elite Match Witness will feed and take nearly anything. I have yet to have it not take a round including xtp's. Something is not right somewhere I believe on your gun.
I've had a Witness 10mm for a couple of years now. Heard the posts about weak recoil springs and changed to a heavier wolf spring. The result was that it was very hard to rack the slide (its so thin). Never really noticed any battering so I switched back.
I handload most all my training rounds and see no need to run real hot loads for training or carry. If I have to shoot some T Rex I'll take a BIG RIFLE. Most humans will go down with a .32 auto placed correctly.
Really great guns,it points just right for me. I have to work to make my Glocks do the same.
FWIW A
I handload most all my training rounds and see no need to run real hot loads for training or carry. If I have to shoot some T Rex I'll take a BIG RIFLE. Most humans will go down with a .32 auto placed correctly.
Really great guns,it points just right for me. I have to work to make my Glocks do the same.
FWIW A
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dcarch
Member
I've always wanted a Witness as well, but some horror stories I'd heard about the CS at EAA scared me off. I would like an Elite Match myself, because I've heard they are one of the most accurate pistols on the market. (Plus, they're in my price range.) If you do get it, please review it. I will be waiting with great anticipation. Maybe I'll buy one at the end of the summer. Thanks!
If you do get it, please review it. I will be waiting with great anticipation. Maybe I'll buy one at the end of the summer. Thanks!hardknocks!
Member
tanfoglio
Hello all
love the 9mm i picked up for 300 bucks NIB.
pretty much a novice i can shoot through the previous bullet holes
@ 21 FT about 1/2 the time. love the high cap mags and options for other barrels.
check out http://tz75man.forumco.com/default.asp
Hello all
love the 9mm i picked up for 300 bucks NIB.
pretty much a novice i can shoot through the previous bullet holes
@ 21 FT about 1/2 the time. love the high cap mags and options for other barrels.
check out http://tz75man.forumco.com/default.asp
wally
Member
Gun is fundamentally great, but your results will depend on if you are lucky with magazines or not.
Here is the "product insert" EAA includes with every magazine:
I've had issues with 9mm, .40S&W and 10mm EAA mags. Only the .45ACP and .38Super mags have all worked. I was able to make the 9mm and .40S&W mags work by changing springs and tweaking feed lips. Never have completely gotten rid of the issues with the 10mm mags.
Here is a photo of the typical issue, its my EAA 10mm compact in the photo not my Elite Match, but both pistols do this from time to time (way too often to be anything but a range toy):
Here is the "product insert" EAA includes with every magazine:
I've had issues with 9mm, .40S&W and 10mm EAA mags. Only the .45ACP and .38Super mags have all worked. I was able to make the 9mm and .40S&W mags work by changing springs and tweaking feed lips. Never have completely gotten rid of the issues with the 10mm mags.
Here is a photo of the typical issue, its my EAA 10mm compact in the photo not my Elite Match, but both pistols do this from time to time (way too often to be anything but a range toy):
dcarch
Member
Have you tried Mec-Gars?
I've experienced much of the same issue wally illustrates in my same base model gun. I've had jams with the nose actually making it into the chamber but still hanging on the ramp.
Been running good the last two range visits, must know it's on the chopping block if it doesn't start working.
Been running good the last two range visits, must know it's on the chopping block if it doesn't start working.
Darkness
Member
You should check out 10mmtalk forums (http://www.10mmTalk.com) and take a look in their Current Production sections.
The basic thoughts are these:
Old style regular Witness in 10mm has square style slides and were just fine.
New style regular Witness in 10mm have rounded slides and crack, regardless of springs or shock buffers. Supposedly, Tanfoglio has fixed this, but there are still reports.
As far as the Witness Elite Match in 10mm, there are no problems. It is a fine pistol. In fact, some regular Witness pistols with cracked slides have been returned to customers sporting new Elite Match slides from EEA.
The polymer framed Witness seems to have no problem, since the frame flexes to absord some of the shock.
The basic thoughts are these:
Old style regular Witness in 10mm has square style slides and were just fine.
New style regular Witness in 10mm have rounded slides and crack, regardless of springs or shock buffers. Supposedly, Tanfoglio has fixed this, but there are still reports.
As far as the Witness Elite Match in 10mm, there are no problems. It is a fine pistol. In fact, some regular Witness pistols with cracked slides have been returned to customers sporting new Elite Match slides from EEA.
The polymer framed Witness seems to have no problem, since the frame flexes to absord some of the shock.
captain awesome
Member
I bought an elite match 10mm recently, and after reading and researching all the issues, I decided to do 2 things to it before I even attempt to shoot it;
1. Replace the recoil spring with one of the wolff ones. I bought the xp kit that has several different weights to experiment with, should be arriving in the mail next couple days. Three extra power firing pin springs are also included, so if for some reason i need one, I will have them.
2. Put in the "Sprinco Recoil Management Guide Rod System". I spoke with the very nice gentleman over at springco yesterday and he is building one and shipping it out for me today. Also, they have stellar customer service, highly recommended in that aspect.
3. Shorten the ejector. There is a gun smith locally that supposedly does this very well. Being a reloader and hearing about brass flying into the next county with these, I thought this would be a good idea. But I may see how it goes at the range first.
I might not make it to the range for a couple weeks, but when I do, I will report my experiences.
1. Replace the recoil spring with one of the wolff ones. I bought the xp kit that has several different weights to experiment with, should be arriving in the mail next couple days. Three extra power firing pin springs are also included, so if for some reason i need one, I will have them.
2. Put in the "Sprinco Recoil Management Guide Rod System". I spoke with the very nice gentleman over at springco yesterday and he is building one and shipping it out for me today. Also, they have stellar customer service, highly recommended in that aspect.
3. Shorten the ejector. There is a gun smith locally that supposedly does this very well. Being a reloader and hearing about brass flying into the next county with these, I thought this would be a good idea. But I may see how it goes at the range first.
I might not make it to the range for a couple weeks, but when I do, I will report my experiences.
Shot a test sample yesterday with 11 different factory loads.
Feedramp failure with Hornady 155, Double Tap 165, Buffalo Bore 180.
Roughly 250 rounds fired.
Initially about three weeks ago the pistol would drop the mag that came with it on every shot fired, EAA when notified had two new mags here in a week or so, stayed put throughout the entire session yesterday.
Not match grade accuracy overall, but good enough for defensive or hunting uses within practical ranges.
Denis
Forgot to mention the ejection- 20 to 45 feet, depending on the ammunition.
Feedramp failure with Hornady 155, Double Tap 165, Buffalo Bore 180.
Roughly 250 rounds fired.
Initially about three weeks ago the pistol would drop the mag that came with it on every shot fired, EAA when notified had two new mags here in a week or so, stayed put throughout the entire session yesterday.
Not match grade accuracy overall, but good enough for defensive or hunting uses within practical ranges.
Denis
Forgot to mention the ejection- 20 to 45 feet, depending on the ammunition.
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DammitBoy
Member
I really wanted to get the witness, but have heard so many horror stories that I've pretty much shelved the idea. Currently, the Kimber seems to be in the lead for my first factory 10mm.
How good is your experience with the Kimber?
wally
Member
Mec-Gar doesn't make Witness 10mm mags, yet. They are supposed to be available later this year. I certainly will try them. I've great results with all their other mags in every pistol I've tried.
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