Easiest way to recover spent bullets? (forenics college course)

[femoralis]

I'm going to help prepare a forensics lab for a college course. We want to do bullet comparison (rifling grooves, etc) so I will need to get some spent pistol bullets (one from the "crime scene", several from the "suspect's" pistol).

So, how to capture a bullet? I'm thinking shooting into a line of milk jugs filled with water, but if anyone has thoughts about that method, or an alternative, I'd appreciate hearing it.

Thanks!

 

[mr_dove]

I've heard of people using a steel drum filled with sand and tilted at an angle. Not sure how deep they penetrate or how hard it is to dig them out of the dirt though.

 

[hammerklavier]

Sand would deform the bullet too much, even an FMJ would be scratched up. Don't they just shoot them into a pool or large bath?

 

[MachIVshooter]

Don't they just shoot them into a pool or large bath?

Yes, water tanks are the most common method. Of course, they're not just bath tubs or kiddie pools:

 

[JustinJ]

Could you make up some very light custom loads with minimal velocity that will essentially just bounce off of a softer target or at least require minimum water depth?

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't understand water tank recovery.
Every hollowpoint bullet I have ever shot into water expanded nicely. There might be enough bearing surface left to look at rifling striations, but they sure aren't the pristine slugs shown on CSI.
Of course if you limit your shooting to solids, it won't be much of a problem.

 

[xsquidgator]

Try a stack of phone books. For your purposes dry phone books should be fine. If you want "poor man's ballistic gel", soak the books in water overnight and then use them.

I've done this with handguns and dry phone books are a lot tougher than you might think. 38 Special +P (the "FBI load" LSWCHP) only go perhaps 3 inches into dry phone book. 40SW 165 JHPs and 45 (JHP and FMJ ball) went further, by memory I think it was about 4-6" of phone book. Just duct-tape a couple of phone books together and set against a safe backstop. It's pretty neat cutting the tape off and exploring the ripped up inside phone books for the bullets.

 

[Der Stro]

Short of building a custom tub I would assume a long block of ballistic gel would be the easiest way to recover a bullet

 

[average_shooter]

Big +1 to phone books.

Just a couple weeks ago I was at the cabin and found a pile of .45 ACP bullets on the ground and tried to figure out where they came from. Then I remembered two or three years ago there was a Big old snowbank there I stacked phone books against and shot into. Guess I didn't recover all my bullets, but there they were.

 

[brickeyee]

Unless you can reduce the velocity you are going to have a lot of damage unless you use FMGs, making any type of analysis very iffy.

 

[femoralis]

Thanks for the ideas!

I will use FMJ, probably 9mm.

The phone books sounds more convient than the water jugs I was planning on using.

Any more ideas?

 

[Rollis R. Karvellis]

A 5 gallon bucket full of shredded tire much will stop most any handgun bullet. Except maybe the 500 mag. You most likely will need two buckets for them. These were shot into Banker Box, at 25 yards, the box lined up no bullets passed the second box.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Many things will stop a bullet. The objective is to do so without damaging it. The old method was to use a bail of cotton. Now days the best method is to use a big block of foam rubber like they use to make couch chshons. You will need a large block.

 

[taliv]

guys, what is the point of trying to create an unrealistic scenario for training?

just go to your local firing range, put a bullet into the dirt. put another one into a cinder block. put another one into ballistic gel or a frozen turkey.

pick up all the pieces you can find. if you can't find any pieces, or if the pieces you find are unusable... well, that's life.


bring the point home, xkcd,

 

[Texas Gun Person]

Shoot a gun underwater works... bullet isn't damaged at all.

But the gun is soaking wet.

 

[average_shooter]

I was going to suggest making it interesting by using FMJ and HP fired from the same weapon, instead of all FMJ. Make it more realistic. See if it is actually possible to accurately compare bullets in a more real-world scenario.

 

[brickeyee]

guys, what is the point of trying to create an unrealistic scenario for training?

You need to practice technique before you have to deal with reality.

 

[chhodge69]

This site is full of low budget demonstrations:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

 

[The Sarge]

Go get about 5 or 6 slabs of inexpensive pork ribs.

 

[somoss]

very (read very) light load then shoot into a 5 gallon bucket of water from above. use this method for sluggin bores.

 

[Cop Bob]

Water tanks are the norm in crime labs.... Expansion is usually minimal, there is generally more than enough rifling visible for use in a comparison scope... Just build it long, and shoot from one end... just like the photo.. even rifle bullets fall to the bottom at about the 7' mark... Pistols about half that..

 

[Odd Job]

I once prepared 5 or 6 different 9mm JHPs for a lecture by firing them directly into the deep end of a swimming pool. Recovery was easy, as I was already in my swimming trunks. Expect the gun and yourself to get wet!

I have also had the chance to use a proper water tank at a police ballistics lab for multiple rounds ranging from .25ACP to .357 mag.
Recovery of those rounds was by means of a plastic pole with a kind of putty like Blue-Tac on the end.

 

[19&41]

Are there any forensic ballistic facilities near to you? You could ask for access and be considered depending on the ties the college you attend have with the personnel in charge. It would be worth a try to find out.

 

[Rollis R. Karvellis]

You can't tell by the photo, but the .44 mag, and .357 mag have very good rifling groves and very little deformation, other then the expansion of the .44 being that it is a SJSP. Total cost of about $30.00 for the materials.

 

[Hossfly68]

Buy a cheapo horse trough from the Co-op.