eBay Reverses its Gun (parts) Policy

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Companies exist to make..... MONEY!! If they feel they can safely sell firearm parts and accessories and make more money they will.

Some of their no gun and no gun parts policy may be based on anti gun beliefs. I believe much of there reasoning comes from their desire to do good. They feel selling of guns could be a liability and may possibly allow guns in to the wrong hands. Many of us believe this to be misinformed and wrong thinking. They truly believe this to be right and true. They have good motives and are trying to do what's "right".

We need to change our perception that anyone is against us is evil and stupid or that they are maliciously trying to do us harm. Anyone's difference of opinion is based on what they believe the facts are. We need to pity those that are blinded by misinformation and help them see the truth.

eBay should be encouraged in there new found understanding. Positive reinforcement is always better/more effective than negative reinforcement. Positive reinforcement is not always possible but when it is we need to be open to see the opportunities as they present themselves. Otherwise we come off as blind and unchanging. Not all progress is bad.

Companies have the right to form their business plans around their beliefs. Should they be boycotted for doing what they think is right? Will that ever accomplish anything? Using finical pressure to force someone to think a certain way is no less wrong than treading on our 2nd amendment rights. They have the RIGHT to operate the way they feel is best. Their rights are no less valuable than ours.

Willful ignorance does both sides much damage. If you think you know the "truth" and others don't get it, you have already lost the battle. Don't be afraid of being open minded. Closing your eyes will not protect your rights. Only by understanding where your opponent is coming from, will you be able to lead them in the direction he should go.
 
after seeing inflated prices on some stuff sold on ebay . like a $2.00 part saleing for $6.00 for example.
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It's no different than Midways and others "Special handling fees" and other BS. That will inflate a 2 dollar part to 10 after shipping and handling...
 
Sam,

Just for my edification are you suggesting that E-Bays sudden policy change is purely altruistic?
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Why would I ever believe ANY corporation does ANYTHING out of altruism? That would almost be a betrayal of capitalism and market forces. They're doing it because a)they are satisfied that they face very minimal liability for allowing these sorts of sales (that's GREAT), b) because they understand that it is a hugely popular area of retail -- popular enough in general to far outweigh any minor flak they'll get from the antis (that's GREAT), and c) because they'll make money (that's just fine by me).

If not then I surmise it's being done for greed, which I believe shouldn't be rewarded.
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Um...greed by any other name is just the desire to make a profit. The ONLY reason any company does something is that (one way or another) it will benefit the bottom line. (Yup...that includes "charity" stuff as well. Less direct effects on profit, but the effects are there, and measurable, and important to the company.)

The only possible effect any of us can have over any corporation is to hit them in their pocket book. If you don't want to 'reward greed' you'll never influence any company to do any thing whatsoever.

This company showed its true colors a few years ago and I have no reason to believe that upper management has made a Fundamental change in their philosophy towards the people who populate our sport.
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DEEDS not philosophies. This is a net win, for us, and I'd say we should make it worth their while.

Given enough cash in their pocket from gun owners buying and selling gun stuff, their philosophy -- such as it may be -- is liable to modification.

(And, even if it never changes in their hearts of hearts, all that gun gear for sale on such a public market place is still far more of a positive thing than changing some CEO's mind ever could be.)
 
double post sent from a cheap cellphone bought off ebay :)
 
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Really.....to make money wow I never would've thunk that. Jorg that is a shock, you've really taken me to task on this whole Capatalist economic system. But apparently you forgot that this publicly traded company denounced our sport and all the trappings that go with it!

As to your "guess" to their corporate philosophy that's worth what I paid for it now isn't it. Unless you were there when the decision was made your "opinion" isn't worth a hill of beans to me. A less risk aversion policy is what it is....corporate greed.

And coolluke your response is redundant to the point of hypocrisy, just read the first sentence of your second paragraph. Everything you said after that is pure conjecture so at least I got a laugh outta this post. You can give them all the positive reinforcement you like just don't expect the rest of us to swallow that***********.

Where did all the profits go when E-Bay shunned us, who took up the slack? Those are the people I will positively reinforce with my cash and for you to tell me anything else isn't being very positive is it? Willfull ignorance on E-Bays part started this but I guess you forgot that too! You know that old saying? "Fool me once shame on you....Fool me twice shame on me" You support who you want and I'll do the same.....deal?
 
Jeff H said:
Sir, you are not really correct. There is a big difference between what you can get away with on Paypal and what Paypal officially allows. If you get caught, you can have your account locked.

Directly from the PayPal FAQ
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Actual i am correct and your link proves it. Paypal allows certain transactions that are gun related and knowingly work with gun companies. They restrict some but not all transactions. Kel Tec in no way, shape, or form hides the fact the make guns on there website. I have bought sights, barrells, gripframes, and even a slide from them. Lee reloader proudly sells all reloading equipment (not components) through lee factory sales and paypal. I have bought presses and dies many times with zero risk. Paypal knowingly allows cast bullets to be sold thru several makers
The items listed are restricted because paypal does not want to get involved in the potential loss of money due to legal issues. It is a business move
 
Remllez, it's quite telling that you denounce everyone else's opinions for not actually being there, but then claim to have a deep insight into their philosophy. Mind sharing with us how long you've been on the board of directors or on which shareholder call they "denounced our sport and all the trappings that go with it!"? Sure, they changed their policy under the face of intense public scrutiny after one of the worst shootings in US history, but to call that a denouncement of "our sport and all the trappings that go with it" is more than a little melodramatic.

If you value other members opinions so little, you may with to refrain from enaging in discussions which involve them. This is, after all, a discussion forum where people share their opinions.
 
Jorge,

The intense public scrutiny was the denouncement, what part of that is unclear to you, by the by where did you get "your information" that you have based your onions/conjecture on? It's funny that when an opposing view is expressed on here people are attacked and invited to opt out of the conversation.

I thought that a spirited discussion was part and parcel of this board, and it was encouraged but when a "moderator" is challenged with an opposing view it gets all nasty up in here. Considering I asked Sam the original question and you saw fit to speak for an intelligent man you should be looking at your motives instead of questioning mine?

I wasn't attacking Sam with my question, you made that assumption not me! I asked a valid question and looked forward to his answer. Your condescending reply to my question to Sam is what generated my response to you.....You get what you give, and if you open your mind to others views then a generally positive conversation will follow.
 
Remllez said:
Jorge,

The intense public scrutiny was the denouncement, what part of that is unclear to you, by the by where did you get "your information" that you have based your onions/conjecture on? It's funny that when an opposing view is expressed on here people are attacked and invited to opt out of the conversation.

I thought that a spirited discussion was part and parcel of this board, and it was encouraged but when a "moderator" is challenged with an opposing view it gets all nasty up in here. Considering I asked Sam the original question and you saw fit to speak for an intelligent man you should be looking at your motives instead of questioning mine?

I wasn't attacking Sam with my question, you made that assumption not me! I asked a valid question and looked forward to his answer. Your condescending reply to my question to Sam is what generated my response to you.....You get what you give, and if you open your mind to others views then a generally positive conversation will follow.
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I do not believe it was a denouncement personally, but say it was. If a company or orginzation (which is a group of people) waiver from one side of an issue or another, does it not make more sense to try to pull them to our side or push them away?

Ebay/paypal are not made up of a group of people who are clearly against us. They actually are clearly on the fence, which is evident by always allowing some transactions and having policy changes. Which benifits the gun community more. Having a company as large and powerful seeing the benifit of our side or giving them good reason to take their power and influence to the antis.

I for one am for growing the gun community not growing the anti community
 
eBay, like any other publicly traded company, has a responsibility to make money for their investors. If the board members fail to do so, then they are replace by members with a better idea.

ebay has no responsibility to improve public services, public schools or any social endeavors. As mentioned above, their duty is to make money for their investors. Period.
 
Remllez, I'm not reading condescension in Jorg's answer to you. In fact, I read the same things (in more concise format) that I put into my own reply -- which you've ignored.

I'm reading a lot of hostility from you, however.

Yes, if your mind is made up, don't do business through eBay. That's your choice and no one here's going to somehow force you to do what you don't want to do.

My view of the matter is that we may boycott them when they do what we don't like, but that we should reward them when they sway to our side of the fence.

Corporations learned long ago not to wave banners and make dramatic public statements on political issues. So holding out until they issue a Pro-Gun Manifesto is pointless. All you'll ever get are slight policy shifts one way or the other. They shifted away from "our side" as a reaction to a terrible and highly public-relations-volatile situation. Now they're shifting back our way. This would be a good time to support them. Positive reinforcement moves corporations as well as kids and dogs. ;)

Or don't, if you just can't stomach it. But don't get chafed over it.
 
I agree that ebay's reversal should earn our patronage. They've seen the error of their ways, and now they are willing to atone. The reason for their reversal is a non-issue.

After all...we went to war with Japan and twice with Germany, and after hostilities ceased, we resumed trade with them. Why not ebay?
 
Read the second sentence of Jorge's post, not condescending? My 8 year old grandson knows why companies are in business. Who asked for a pro-gun manifesto, I mean where did you get that from....wasn't me. Tuner,as for resuming trade with Japan, Germany and its allies.

There is a whole generation of American people that considered that the ultimate betrayal
by our government against the many thousands of U.S soldiers that died fighting in those wars. I don't detect any hostility in my posts, that's your opinion, just a spirited conversation ...You can make the distinction right?

But I do take offense to the asinine, juvenile statement made by that little Ambidextrous1 minion.People like him just try to inflame people and offer absolutely nothing of import to this conversation.
 
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Remllez, I don't understand your statement.
And coolluke your response is redundant to the point of hypocrisy
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If I held a contradictory point of view than what I posted I could see hypocrisy. But redundancy is just validation to me that I can come to the same conclusion from several different points of view.

I can see that you feel attacked by some on this forum. I haven't seen where it has come from but you seem to. Your calling my post useless conjecture is hardly a good way to have a discussion. I haven't seen anyone call you names. But you seem to be above the rules and call others
But I do take offense to the asinine, juvenile statement made by that little Ambidextrous1 minion.
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Hypocrisy anyone?

I understand your position is founded on the fact that you feel eBay has been un-loyal. I understand that is frustrating and disillusioning. I would encourage you to look at the corporation not as one person but as a growing organism that changes.

There is a whole generation of American people that considered that the ultimate betrayal by our government against the many thousands of U.S soldiers that died fighting in those wars
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This is an example of seeing a place, people, and region as one entity that shot at our Grandpa's. We fought against those that didn't see things the way we did. When they change views or wish to live peaceably I think we have a responsibility to work with them.
 
Ebay, mebbe.......

Paypal ? Never ever. Ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever again.

Ever ever.

NEVER NEVER NEVER ever ever .

Ever.
 
I buy most of my vintage razors and shaving gear off ebay.
I have bought some shooting related items there, too.
 
Remllez said:
Sam,

Just for my edification are you suggesting that E-Bays sudden policy change is purely altruistic? If not then I surmise it's being done for greed, which I believe shouldn't be rewarded. This company showed its true colors a few years ago and I have no reason to believe that upper management has made a Fundemental change in their philosophy towards the people who populate our sport.
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Isn't that the point? Upper management has changed (if not their opinions and policies, their personnel).

Rewarding them for going halfway (allowing weapons-related stuff, but still prohibiting the weapons them selves) is another question, though.

But the logic of the boycott still remains. If you boycott out of spite, that works. Keep the boycott. If you boycott to change behavior, then you undercut the effectiveness of the tactic unless you lift the boycott when behavior changes.

The target of a boycott has no incentive to change behavior if the change will not relieve the boycott.

If "done for greed, which I believe shouldn't be rewarded" matters to you, so be it. But when it comes down to it, do you care WHY an institution behaves, as long as it behaves? Getting ebay to be firearms friendly helps the cause more than it hurts that they are doing it for the "wrong" reasons.

Lost Sheep
 
Hmmm, the atomic bomb may have had a hand in "changing their view to live peaceably" don't ya think. They had no intentions of living peaceably until forced to, so please if you present that as an argument it carries no weight with me.

And the little cheerleader contributes nothing germaine to this conversation, I'm calling a spade a spade, you tell me what "go Sam go means" Explain to me what the first line of your second sentence in post 26 meant, I may be missing something but I don't think so. It sounds like hypocrisy to me.

I grow tired of defending my position to you, and everyone else that can't accept an opposing point of view. All of you have made your positions known to me, I accept that we disagree, maybe you all should too.
 
Remllez said:
Sam,

Just for my edification are you suggesting that E-Bays sudden policy change is purely altruistic? If not then I surmise it's being done for greed, which I believe shouldn't be rewarded. This company showed its true colors a few years ago and I have no reason to believe that upper management has made a Fundemental change in their philosophy towards the people who populate our sport.
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I propose that the majority of businesses you do business with are not in business for altruistic reasons. They are in business to make money, just like everybody else.

I propose that trying to determine if polices are "altruistic" or money based is an exercise in futility.
 
I grow tired of defending my position to you, and everyone else that can't accept an opposing point of view. All of you have made your positions known to me, I accept that we disagree, maybe you all should too.
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Well...it's a discussion board, so we discuss.

I don't think anyone's having trouble accepting that there ARE opposing points of view, but I think it would be silly to require anyone to accept the veracity of a particular point, or to refrain from rebutting it if they disagree with it.

Anyone who feels their point of view is not being accepted should probably either present a stronger argument in support of that idea, supply a more comprehensive refutation of opposing statements, or accept that others have strong, contrary views which have merit -- and/or move on to less emotionally invested topics.

Nothing that any one of us chooses to do will sink or float eBay. So lets not get so wrought up over this that we cease being civil to each other. We're all on the same side, right?
 
Some of their no gun and no gun parts policy may be based on anti gun beliefs. I believe much of there reasoning comes from their desire to do good.
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I think it would be clearer if I had put a "but" in there. I was making a contrast.


Also I don't know that it matters why they changed their minds. Minds were changed and they wanted to live peaceably. So I think it is a sound argument.

I do agree that mindless chiming in will only be annoying, but it still doesn't give me the right to call the spade an annoying brat.
 
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May I ask why?
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Sure.

Made the mistake of purchasing about 3k worth of items for my wedding using a paypal mandated vendor.

About 6k later, we realized paypal was auto debiting our checking account which was linked to payevil, again by mandate ( payevil, not the vendor)

Vendor was not re-chargin us. Payevil was redbiting without authorization.

Long story short, very cash strapped for about 3 weeks after my wedding until they fixed it.

3 weeks.

After my wedding.

Imagine.......what would you need 3K+ dollars for immediately proceeding your wedding?

What did you do after your wedding, go to the dollar store ?

Nah, I was happy to wait for payevil to realize they had f'd up royally, close our checking accounts, almost come to the brink of needing a lawyer, instead of celebrating being married.

Even after being proven correct from day one, it still took them 26 days to get us the money back.

There ya go. All of it 100% true.
 
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