Economist Magazine on NRA vs UN

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JoshM

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http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=6980071

UNbelievable

The NRA takes aim at global bureaucrats

DUKU PAUL does not know how many people he has killed. Though still young, he is a veteran of one of West Africa's nastiest civil wars. For more than a decade, he helped to burn, loot and bloody his homeland, Liberia. Then, in 2003, the United Nations, with American backing, brought peace. Bangladeshi blue helmets took Mr Paul's gun and gave him $300. Interviewed last year, he said he was sorry that he ever became a soldier, and that he wanted to get back to school.
Mr Paul was enrolled in what the UN calls a “disarmament, demobilisation, rehabilitation and reintegration” programme. The world body is keen to promote such programmes wherever appropriate. The National Rifle Association (NRA), the lobby for American gun-lovers, does not like the sound of that.
“So, after we are disarmed, the UN wants us demobilised and reintegrated. I can hear it now: ‘Step right this way for your reprogramming, sir. Once we confiscate your guns, we can demobilise your aggressive instincts and reintegrate you into civil society.’ No thanks,” shudders Wayne LaPierre, the indefatigable executive vice-president of the NRA.

Why does the UN want to take away Americans' guns? Because it is a club of governments, some of which want to “strip opposition forces of the means to challenge their authority,” argues Mr LaPierre. During the 20th century, governments murdered 169m people in various parts of the world, he says. Individual gun ownership is the “ultimate protection against tyranny”.
Mr LaPierre was signing copies of his new book, “The Global War on Your Guns: Inside the UN Plan to Destroy the Bill of Rights”, at the NRA's annual convention in Milwaukee on May 19th-21st.

What do rank-and-file members think? Joe Carlson, a rifle salesman, is serenely unaware of the threat. “I'd not heard about that,” he says. “I've been so busy selling these [award-winning semi-automatic weapons]. I'd better take a look.” Others are better informed. “All these pirate governments want to take from people their rights. That's wrong,” says Greg Johnson, who runs a lodge in Michigan where you can shoot imported Russian wild boars.

For both men, their livelihoods are at stake. Mr Johnson's customers can, it is true, hunt wild boars with “stick and string” (ie, a bow and arrows). But most would prefer to bring their favourite firearm, for those “raging Russian” boars are fierce. “If you hunt him, he'll hunt you,” says Mr Johnson, adding that it is the kind of beast that was running around in the Dark Ages. Yes, “It's one primordial pork chop.”
Mr Carlson's position is even more precarious. The guns he sells are more powerful than the M4 rifles that the army uses. (As any gun-lover knows, with the M4 “there's a problem with one-shot kills,” says Mr Carlson: ie, soldiers are finding it tricky to take out distant targets with a single shot.) Under Bill Clinton, they were labelled “assault rifles” (inaccurately, in Mr Carlson's view) and banned. Congress let the ban lapse in 2004. If “the wrong people” are elected, says Mr Carlson, they'd ban them again in a heartbeat.

The NRA, like so many conservative American groups, has long detested the UN. But Mr LaPierre's claim that it is “the biggest coming threat” to gun-lovers represents a new emphasis. It reflects, in part, his organisation's astonishing success at home. The second amendment is in “the best shape it's been in for decades,” says Mr LaPierre. “Gun-haters” consistently lose elections. The president and both houses of Congress are solidly pro-gun. Last year Congress passed legislation protecting gun manufacturers from “frivolous” lawsuits. Of the 50 states, only two—Wisconsin and Illinois—refuse to let law-abiding citizens carry concealed firearms.

Challenges remain, of course. During the post-hurricane lawlessness in New Orleans last year, the police confiscated a number of legally-held firearms from civilians. Last week, the NRA urged every mayor and police chief in America to pledge never to disarm law-abiding citizens. The governor of Wisconsin, Jim Doyle, has twice vetoed a law that would have allowed licensed citizens to carry concealed handguns. Gun-owners are urged to “Dump Doyle”, among others, at the mid-term elections in November.
For a truly all-embracing threat, however, the UN is hard to beat. Mr LaPierre predicts that the “global war on guns” will boost the NRA's membership from 4m to 8m, and reduce Hillary Clinton's chances of becoming president in 2008. This last point is crucial. The UN, whatever its evil aims, is hardly in a position to push Uncle Sam around.

To disarm Americans, it would need Congress on its side, plus an American president willing to sign an anti-gun treaty and appoint Supreme Court justices willing to rule it constitutional.
Mr LaPierre anticipates that some people might find this far-fetched. “I can hear some readers now: ‘Oh, Wayne's just over-reacting’,” he writes. But that is what they want you to believe. “Just how sure is the United Nations that it can take your guns?” he asks. His answer: “The UN chose the Fourth of July to hold its global gun ban summit on American soil!”

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The Economist regularly reports on - and rails against - governmental corruption, dictatorial governance, and its economic impact on the citizenry of poor nations. However, when its the NRA pointing out the murderous reality of such governments against their own people ... The resulting article from the Economist is a cheap shot against "gun-lovers" titled as "UNbelievable".

Sadly, when it comes to guns penetrating analysis suddenly takes a holiday ..
 
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To disarm Americans, it would need Congress on its side, plus an American president willing to sign an anti-gun treaty and appoint Supreme Court justices willing to rule it constitutional.

You'd also need the American People to go along with the idea, quietly.

I don't think that's going to happen....quietly.
 
Package it right, have a cluster of high-profile cases, and invoke the magic numbers "9" and "11", and you'd be amazed how much people will stand for.

Freedom of the press? We're already losing it in this country and don't care.
 
You'd also need the American People to go along with the idea, quietly.

I don't think that's going to happen....quietly.

Depends on the percentage of self-determining courageous Americans versus complacent, bedwetting security/soccermom/soccerdad Americans.
 
Manedwolf, that one isn't even close to worthy of your talents. The hairy chested gawdfearin' gubbmint hatin' red blooded types are just as easy to hoodwink as anyone else, maybe moreso since they can't even conceive that anyone else's opinion could be worth hearing, much less incorporating. That sort has gone along with every single step in the evisceration of our liberties because their leaders have found the Magic Words: "9-11" "French" "Homosexuals" "Mission Accomplished" "You're With Us or You're With the Terrorists" "National Security". Say those words and they'll baa along happily behind the Judas goat as much as any quiche-eating suburbanite or *shudder* liberal .

It's not about which brand of politician you buy. It's not Wal-Mart vs. Costco or Coke vs. Pepsi. It's about freedom and the fundamental non-partisan values the Republic was founded on. There's always a tendency, and you've stepped right into it with both feet, to say "The people who are just like me must be Good because that makes me feel good about myself. The people who aren't like me must be Bad because I don't like what they like." I know you're better than that. Please don't allow brand-name advertising to blind you to that.
 
Its like that Family Guy episode where Peter says if you dont go along with it your gay. Then everyone goes along with and argues about who wnet along with it first.

People want security more than freedom. Unfortunately I fear the majority may feel this way.
 
For those of you new to THR, accepted protocol on citing articles is to provide the complete URL (preferrably at the beginning).

The Economist is a print magazine, so a URL isn't required. (I'm not saying this article isn't available online.) Anyway, the tone of this article jives with the attitude the Economist normally takes on guns, if slightly less anti- than usual.
 
Depends on the percentage of self-determining courageous Americans versus complacent, bedwetting security/soccermom/soccerdad Americans.

If I recall, during the Revolutionary War only about 2%-3% of the population actually took up arms against the then-most powerful empire on Earth (which was assisted by about 1/3 of the population here that was loyalists). I don't think that you need me to tell you who won that one.

Remember what the Beltway "snipers" did - two nuts, with not much planning, who left incriminating evidence lying around, who were armed with only OK equipment (I'd have used a larger caliber bolt-action rifle which was more accurate/deadly and which didn't leave brass lying around - but of course I'm not an insane murderer), and with one having no training whatsoever - these two murderers held an entire metropolitan area hostage to fear for a few weeks. With thousands of cops and even "national technical means" being used to find them. What would several tens of thousands of well-trained, well-equipped and highly motivated (not to mention sane) freedom fighters be able to do across the country? I'd think a whole lot more - I don't see many food or gasoline deliveries coming to the big cities of Blue America if the truckers are afraid to travel (or if they sympathize with the freedom fighters). Let's see how long it is before there are food and gas riots, which will require the use of most of the NG and maybe more to quell - leaving the freedom fighters alone to do even more damage to the gun grabbers' cause. Game, set and match to the lovers of Liberty, just as the Founding Fathers intended.

The UN can pass what it wants, and the Congress and President (a future one, because even old Amnesty Bush won't go along with this) can sign on, but the real vote that counts in such a circumstance won't be the soap box, the ballot box or the jury box - it'll be the cartridge box. If used by enough people like during the Revolution, then we'll remain free. If not, welcome to Animal Farm.

BTW, for any observers from the various lettered agencies of the federal or state governments, I do NOT advocate violence against any person or thing, and especially not against any elected or appointed official or government employee, nor against any property titled to any government or agency thereof. I'm just observing and speculating, which the 1st Amendment to the Constititution still protects.
 
You'd also need the American People to go along with the idea, quietly.

I guess how quietly depends on whether the American people use silencers.

Realistically, I personally think the politicians in this country are smart enough to not overstep that ridiculously far. The 94 ban was a complete and utter miscalculation on the part of the gun-grabbers but that neither promised the "UN style total ban" or the "Red Dawn style total resistance" that some people are fond of predicting.

Still, if scaremongering ups the NRA to 8 million members, I would be glad to help.
 
"Mr Paul was enrolled in what the UN calls a “disarmament, demobilisation, rehabilitation and reintegration” programme. The world body is keen to promote such programmes wherever appropriate."

The UN recently tried such a disarmament and demobilisation campaign in the world's newest nation, East Timor*. The result - The newly formed professional army of East Timor broke into factions. The civilian police force was attacked by one faction, the government is in ruins, and is pleading for Australian and New Zealand troops to restore order..

Creeping Incrementalism

Anyway, the tone of this article jives with the attitude the Economist normally takes on guns, if slightly less anti- than usual.

I agree - the Economist has been part of my reading for approximately two years, and latetly the anti gun slant is becoming more apparent - Frankly, as a British based business information paper, I don't see why they care so much ?

* Another Balklan state recently seceded from Yugoslavia/Serbia - But I don't know if that state is internationally recogised as independent yet ?
 
Further proof that it isn't all of a piece. The Economist is a member of the True Church of Unfettered Global Capitalism. But its editors are British, so their politics are those of a British market fundamentalist, not an American one.

Why care what's in there? Well, it is one of the most widely read business publications in the world. That means it influences a huge amount of economic and political power.
 
Why care what's in there? Well, it is one of the most widely read business publications in the world. That means it influences a huge amount of economic and political power.

I agree, I just do not understand why the editorial staff of The Economist seem to worry so much over RKBA in Smalltown USA and other western nations. Especially, when in the same issue there is a report on the continuing horrors of Zimbabwe. I would of thought that reporting on the Mugabe regime would put things into perspective. Obviously not !
 
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You'd also need the American People to go along with the idea, quietly.

I don't think that's going to happen....quietly.


Depends on the percentage of self-determining courageous Americans versus complacent, bedwetting security/soccermom/soccerdad Americans.

Don't forget, only about 5% of Americans suported the Revolution against King George III. It does not take all that many to succeed.
 
make kofi cough -- up chuck even

UN calls a “disarmament, demobilisation, rehabilitation and reintegration” programme. The world body is keen to promote such programmes wherever appropriate.

KofiCardB.gif

KofiCardF002.gif

Print yourself up one and mail it!!
:cool:
 
JoshM said:
I agree, I just do not understand why the editorial staff of The Economist seem to worry so much over RKBA in Smalltown USA and other western nations.

It's probably because their culture, on the whole, considers guns to be dangerous and unpleasant and the people who own them outside of very specialized jobs to be backwards, barbaric, safety averse and probably dangerous. It's especially jarring to them because there is so much they like about America otherwise. Obviously, I don't agree with the assessment, but that's pretty close to what they think.
 
I've already sent my card. I remember back in 2001 I wrote to Sen. Blanche Lincolin(sp) from AR. She wrote back saying the UN metting at that time had nothing to do with banning or controlling my firearms. She was a dang liar then as now. I wrote to my other Senator a R and my Represenative a R. They both assured me they were aware of what was going on and would never vote for anything that would infringe on my right to own firearms. And they would fight strongly aganist any law or the UN if needed. Big difference they were right and kept the promise. Ms. Senator is a moderate so called Democrat but a liar all the same.:fire:
 
Under Bill Clinton, they were labelled “assault rifles” (inaccurately, in Mr Carlson's view) and banned.

This reporter need to do more homework. Mr Carlson's view is based on FACT. Notice this makes Mr Carlson look bad in comparison with the President.

(sent my card in too)
 
2-3% of Americans would be about 6-9 million Americans.... the NRA has less than 4 million members and wields considerable political power. Facts are, if you had 2-3% of Americans who were so dedicated to a cause they were willing to give up everything they had and fight and die for it, we wouldn't have any problem protecting RKBA because politicians would be out of office for even suggesting it.

And that is where we will win or lose the battle ultimately, not by convincing the rest of America that we are harmless and should be allowed to pursue our firearms hobby in peace; but by growing back the cultural base of Americans who enjoy responsible firearms use.
 
UN Response to NRA Comments In Article

http://www.economist.com/PrinterFriendly.cfm?story_id=7033284

SIR – It was interesting to learn from Wayne LaPierre, the leader of the National Rifle Association, that he thinks the latest campaign against the United Nations will double the NRA's membership ("UNbelievable", May 27th). But he should have verified some of his facts. The UN has not chosen the Fourth of July (a holiday at UN headquarters) to hold a so-called "global gun ban summit". But it will hold an important conference in June and July to assess the results of its voluntary programme to tackle illegal small arms (gun-running), five years after it was unanimously approved by all member states, including the United States. This has nothing to do with a global gun ban and does not deny the legal right of law-abiding citizens to own small arms in accordance with their national laws. The UN is in no way seeking to take away Americans' guns, but is trying to ensure that illegal guns will not fall into the wrong hands, like those of child soldiers or criminals. Is this not a laudable objective?

Shashi Tharoor
Under-secretary-general for communications and public information
United Nations
New York

I wonder if "the wrong hands" include the dead East Timorese Police officers that the UN disarmed recently ?

The problem the UN has is that gun control activists are openly referring to this conference as an important step towards gun control, and "national laws" or "gun running" are not included in their comments
 
Of the 50 states, only two—Wisconsin and Illinois—refuse to let law-abiding citizens carry concealed firearms.

Boy, it sure is nice to know that any law abiding citizen that wants to carry a concealed firearm in CA and NY can without any trouble, isn't it?
 
I'm sure some of you are capable of enough detachment to look at how this issue looks from the outside. As the letter quoted in post 22 states the UN's (openly stated) goal is to slow illegal gun running and promote disarmament of child soldiers and the like. Frankly if that is the goal, and arms were prevented from falling into the 'wrong hands' (who gets to decide that eh?) that is no terrible thing.

Now the problem with the NRA here is that, accurately or not, they appear to be, or are portrayed to be, against this goal. Against any form of restrictions on the trade of guns from countries like China, former Yugoslav republics to countries where they are used to actively suppress the population. Against disarmament of kids given guns and thrown into nasty civil wars. I'm not saying that this is the case, but in the light of that portrayal, statements like:

“So, after we are disarmed, the UN wants us demobilised and reintegrated. I can hear it now: ‘Step right this way for your reprogramming, sir. Once we confiscate your guns, we can demobilise your aggressive instincts and reintegrate you into civil society.’ No thanks,” shudders Wayne LaPierre
(and I note the absence of context)

are not really helping. LaPierre appears to be saying here that demobilising troops involved in long bloody wars, and reintegration of said troops are somehow a bad thing. Throw in the use of the term 'reprogramming' and you've got yourself a statement that is not going to appeal in the slightest to those who are sympathetic to the idea that kids shouldn't be soldiers and that civil wars supplied with arms by unscrupulous countries and traders are a bad thing.

Now what is the real situation? Are the NRA tilting at windmills here, or is there definite and substantiated evidence that the goal of this conference is to promote the US gunowner? The East Timor situation was stupid, I agree.

JoshM - Montenegro recently voted to split from Serbia.
 
re:

Iain...It's not really about what the NRA is projecting, and it's not about "Peace" or "Stopping the Violence" in nasty brushfire wars in South Africa, et al. Its about setting a precedent that...once done...threatens to roll across the globe, up to and including the Constitutional RKBA here.

Interesting that some of these people who are holding hands and singing Kumbaya really believe that the UN can keep people from killing one another by restricting the means which they use to accomplish that end. Take the guns. They'll just use rocks, sticks, and machetes, or...necklaces. All kinds of ways to kill, and many are much more cruel than a rifle bullet.

Gun "control" is really about people control. People just don't want to be controlled, and they'll kill ya to prove it.
 
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