Educate me on primers..

[lezmark]

Yesterday at a cowboy shoot, one of the better shooters (this was my third shoot - still getting the hang of it) came to the unloading table and asked what primers I was using in my pistols. I should have asked what he saw, but didnt. When I told him CCI, he told me they were too hard and I would be better off with Winchesters. He said the CCI's were fine for the rifle. I really hadnt given primers much thought before, and when I saw specific brand primers on powder manufacturers websites, i figured it was more than likely because they paid to be there.
So, does brand matter?

 

[nettlle]

I can't tell any difference in the brand of primers. Some say a certain brand will seat easier than another but that hasn't been the case for me. I am using Winchester now but wouldn't hesitate going to CCI if the price was right and they were available.

 

[rcmodel]

No, not unless you are getting misfires with the 'Hard' CCI primers.

If you are, it's a gun problem, not a primer problem.

CCI is almost all I have ever used in everything for 40-50 years.

They are uniformly good primers.

rc

 

[Ankeny]

Most USPSA revolver shooters are using Federal primers. They are even softer than Winchester.

 

[moxie]

If they go bang, they are good.

I've used Winchester, Remington, CCI, and Federal over the years in many different applications. Can't tell the difference. I buy whatever's cheapest.

 

[Candyman87]

I've used mostly CCI in my reloads and have never had an issue. They always go bang. Only once have I not and it was a primer I couldn't seat fully due to a dirty seat pocket. I marked the cartridge as "probably going to have a problem" and had to drop the hammer on it twice. The first one seated the primer and the second one set the round off.

 

[Wil Terry]

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE---NONE, ZILCH, NADA, ZIPPO, NOTHING--- in the " hardness of primers" ; NONE !!! MATTER OF FACT, the last time I checked most all of the brass sheet manufactured for primer production by everyone was all made by the same company
There is a very BIG difference in the sensitivity of the priming compound and the FEDERAL basic lead styphnate priming compound is many times more sensitive that the R-P, WW, and CCI priming compounds. THIS IS WHY many of the hand priming tool manufacturers recommend you DO NOT use Federal primers in their hand priming tools. SO...you think they are kidding HUH ??!!??
WELL PUT THIS IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT : EVERY case of which I am aware of a sympathetic detonation of primers where someone---or MORE that one person---were killed was done by FEDERAL primers; EVERY FREAKING TIME !!!!!
One explosion of which I am aware took place in a large sealed room in which NONE of the walls and ceiling were breeched and not all the body parts were EVER found; gone, vaporized.
And so it goes...

 

[moxie]

Any links to info on those accidents?

 

[Slamfire]

WELL PUT THIS IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT : EVERY case of which I am aware of a sympathetic detonation of primers where someone---or MORE that one person---were killed was done by FEDERAL primers; EVERY FREAKING TIME !!!!!

One explosion of which I am aware took place in a large sealed room in which NONE of the walls and ceiling were breeched and not all the body parts were EVER found; gone, vaporized.
And so it goes...

This is frightening. I would be interested in hearing more.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE---NONE, ZILCH, NADA, ZIPPO, NOTHING--- in the " hardness of primers" ; NONE !!! MATTER OF FACT, the last time I checked most all of the brass sheet manufactured for primer production by everyone was all made by the same company

I have read, and I believe, that CCI benchrest primers have a thinner cup to make them more sensitive. Based on my experience, Winchester did the same thing, possibly also specifying sheet that was a little less hard, on their “brass finish” primers. Prior to 1999 Winchester primers were nickel (or zinc?) plated. Identical loads that never causes any problems with the nickel plated primers pierced something awful with the brass finish WSR. I had to cut my 223 loads by at least 1.5 grains or I would have had two handfuls of dished AR15 firing pins. As it is, I have a number of ruined AR15 firing pins that I use as punches. That was the last I ever bought Winchester rifle primers.

There may be only one sheet brass maker, but the purchase order could specify thicknesses and hardness. That, combined with a more sensitive mix, as you correctly identified, will make a much more sensitive primer.

Federal bragged for decades about making the most sensitive primer on the market. They got enough bad press about AR15 slamfires they offered their mil spec primer to the market. Federal told a caller that the primer composition was the same, just a thicker cup, and I believe, different anvil dimensions.

Hummer70 has written several informed documents on primers. This one is a hoot:

IT DON’T GO BANG: FIRES, HANGFIRES, MISFIRES AND SHORT ORDER COOKS IN JERSEY By Mark Humphreville http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/08/primers-it-dont-go-bang.html

And this post here at Milsurps.

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=26823

I am of the opinion that if you become a "coil cutter", that is cutting coils off your mainspring to create a lighter trigger pull, you ought to use federal pistol primers. And only shoot that pistol in situations where unreliable ignition won't get you killed.

 

[gonoles_1980]

I don't really know anything about primers. I tend to use CCI 500's, but with my charter arms 38spl, I get about a 20% misfire rate on the first fire. So I only use Win WSP for my charter arms and I have a <1% mis-fire rate.

 

[Candyman87]

I don't really know anything about primers. I tend to use CCI 500's, but with my charter arms 38spl, I get about a 20% misfire rate on the first fire. So I only use Win WSP for my charter arms and I have a <1% mis-fire rate.

Were the CCI's all from one batch? Or several batches?

Not to be critical, just curious.

 

[mdi]

90%+ of failures to fire, for newer reloaders, is improper primer seating. Primers not seated properly will very often fail to fire on first strike, and most of the time will fire on second strike (after first hit seats them better). I have been reloading for mebbe 30 years, and very rarely have a primer problem, and I've used priming systems on presses, 3 different hand primers and my favorite, ram priming. I cannot say for sure if I've encountered any "bad" primers, as I've reloaded a lot of rounds and don't remember any failures I could attribute to poorly manufactured primers. I have encountered only one problem with Winchester primers; that was with a striker fired 9mm semi-auto. I had to "pre-load" the Winchester primers (CCI and Wolf worked fine). Only problem in one gun with one brand of primers one time.

 

[TexasDon]

I use Win's and CCI's, I have used them for many years and can't recall a problem, main problems in my case has been primers that don't seat properly.
It happens every now and then especially if I'm in a hurry and don't do the index finger test....

I've heard all the stories and some may be true, I've also read about primer brass hardness. ???
I've used other brands at times when the two I use are not available with no problems So Far.

I just make sure I'm wearing safety glasses at all times when handling them.
They ARE mass produced and things CAN happen I guess.

Like others have said, I have gone through a lot of primers with no big problems except for the operator....

TxD

 

[balderclev]

I use whatever I can find or the cheapest. Never noticed a difference between brands.

 

[FROGO207]

Well I have used several brands of standard primers and other than the Federal being more sensitive they all worked the same in my handguns. I have loaded Federal, CCI, WIN, Tula/Wolf, Remington, Magtech, Monarch, and a couple others that are no longer made. In the respective brands there are SOME differences between regular and MAG primers other than cup hardness, as well as the Match type which are more uniform within lot#. The same holds true with rifle primers in my experience. The Mag type do have a harder cup to hold up to the higher pressures developed as well as harder ones to guard against slam-fires in certain semi auto rifles.

 

[RugerBob]

One thing with cowboy shoots is that you will find many slick their guns up. Lightening the springs up. Then the hammers won't have the energy to make a cci go boom. Many prefer federals even over winchesters for this reason.

 

[nettlle]

Winchester Large Pistol Primers are for standard and magnum loads. At least it says so on the box.

 

[gonoles_1980]

The CCI's were from several batches, as have been the Winchesters. The gun smith said someone lightened up the spring in the Charter Arms 38spl. I could try to replace the spring, but with as well as the winchesters work, I just buy winchesters just for my 38spl.

On a side note: I did an experiment with a batch that was giving me issues, some I couldn't get to fire on the second hit, I put in my 357 and they fired find. Took about 15 out that had not been fired yet and they all fired fine out of the 357. Granted that's a small sample size.

I could experiment more, but since the rate is <1% with the winchesters I don't bother.

 

[sigma 40ve]

Today I tried running some CCI small rifle primers with 38 special in my S&W 66. Had some light strikes and fail to fires. Never had that issue with their small pistol primers in the 66. And yes it does have lightened springs from Wilson. Rifle primers that much harder?

 

[Potatohead]

I think the fella you talked to was trying to act like he was smarter than he actually is. That's an asinine statement "you should switch to Win"...I agree, if you want the absolute ugliest primer on the market.

It's amazing to me what some people think, and are goofy enough to tell people, about things that they dont know much about.

Did you have some failures to fire or anything? Or was this guy just wanting to "enlighten" you.

 

[vongh]

Today I tried running some CCI small rifle primers with 38 special in my S&W 66. Had some light strikes and fail to fires. Never had that issue with their small pistol primers in the 66. And yes it does have lightened springs from Wilson. Rifle primers that much harder?

I do believe that rifle primers are a bit harder than small pistol primers due to the fact that many rifle use a floating firing pin. If you ever chamber and eject a .223 loaded round for example look and you will see small dent. I did purchase some Remington small rifle primers 6 1/2 primer and to my dismay found out that they were only to be used with 22 hornets and not for any other rifles due to their inability to handle higher pressures.

 

[Huskerguy]

I use primarily CCI's in everything. I have used Federal, Winchester and Tula's. I do think the Federals are a bit softer. Every once in a while one gets sideways in my Lee hand primer and they just have a much softer feel to them. The Tula's are harder and tighter as well.

I have a Dan Wesson that people claim are notorious for light primer strikes. I use Federal, Winchester and L&B's for the Dan. I do think the CCI are overall a bit harder than others with Federal being really soft although I have never had a CCI fail to fire in the Dan with a few hundred run through it.

 

[HighExpert]

I use Winchester mainly because of how they are packed. I get sick of playing with primers in a flip tray in order to fill tubes on a Dillon. Winchester packs flat so you can slide an empty tray under an empty and flip them all at once, set them on the bench and pull the sleeve. Load tubes. I also like that I don't need to worry about magnum and regular.

 

[Average Joe]

Unless your gun has a light strike,or has had trigger work done, then they are all the same. Some brand primers are a little harder than others, but most guns will not have any issues with the harder primers.

 

[aggiejet]

For what it's worth, I am having a problem with CCI primers not firing, even after the second pull on a new Savage 111 25-06 rifle. I probably have reloaded 300 to 400 rounds and have had about 6 to 8 no fires. And yes I am new to reloading. But I don't think my primer problem is not seating the primers deep enough. I also am not saying anything is wrong with CCI primers. I just lost the extractor off the bolt face of the same gun, so something isn't right.