Educate me on the .357 sig

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s12.aaxtell

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I am new to handgun shooting and was wondering about the .357 and what makes the .357 sig different? The .357 seems like a well respected caliber, but I have not heard anything about the .357 sig. It looks a little funky and just wanted to get some more info about it.

Thanks,

Alex
 
It was designed to replicate the ballistics of the .357 Magnum revolver round in a semi-auto pistol. I haven't heard anything bad about it, besides the high prices. The bottle neck shaped case aids in proper feeding. I hear it also penetrates barriers well. (Getting much of this info from one of Massad Ayoob's books).
On the other hand, I've heard that it doesn't do anything that 9mm +P doesn't do, and 9mm costs half as much.
 
The .357 magnum, which is what people are generally talking about when they say .357, is a revolver round. There are a few automatic .357 mags out there, but they are relatively rare. The .357 sig was designed specifically for automatic pistols and it is one of the few common pistol calibers with a bottlenecked case. It was designed to mimic .357 mag performance, and while it falls a bit short of .357 mag performance, it does have very high velocity for an automatic pistol cartridge and is generally considered a good choice if high-penetration capabilities are desired.
 
From all that I have seen, heard, and read, the .357Sig performs very well as a self-defense round.

As others have mentioned, it was designed to duplicate the performance of the 125g .357 magnum load (from a 4" barrel).
And it does come very close....

Speer Gold Dot:
125g .357 magnum
muzzle velocity = 1450 fps.
muzzel energy = 584 ft.lbs.

Speer Gold Dot:
125g .357Sig
muzzle velocity = 1350 fps.
muzzle energy = 506 ft.lbs.

From my personal shooting I can say that it hits the targets and puts them down hard!
 
Check out doubletapammo, also brassfetcher.com.

My views on the Sig. 357 is that it's good for 125 grain loads pushed at an excess of 1250fps. Most folks consider a 158 grain bullet pushed at 1250 fps to be the lightest true .357 magnum load. Some will accept a 125 grain bullet pushed at 1400fps to be an acceptable magnum load.

Doubletap offers ammo where a 125 grain bullet can be pushed at 1525 fps out of a 4.5 inch barrel, so a Glock 31 would be a good order. I have a Glock 23 that I push there 135 grain .40 at over 1300 fps. I've thought about getting the conversion barrel for .357 sig.

I like glock for the hotter ammo because of my personal experiences with my Glock 20 and all the doubletapammo(a few hundred rounds) I've put throught it and the gun is still running great.

Many times I've considered the .357 sig but I've already got a 10mm and if I really wanted a hot 9mm I'd get another Glock 20 and convert it to 9x25 Dillon. I also own a Ruger Sp101 3" so I'm pretty well covered when doubletapammo offers a 125 grain load that gets 1400fps from a two inch barrel. Doubletapammo tend to be pretty dead on when it comes to fps reports and makes great ammo.

Unless you really want the hot stuff the .357 sig is not too great a round. Get yourself an XD .40 or Glock .40 that with a barrel swap can be converted to .357 sig and enjoy them both. I've thought about getting an XD .40 4" and doing so but I've got plenty of guns and am not in any rush. I'd sooner get a XDM 9mm if I could find a great used deal.
 
A couple other things. You have to really watch actual ballistics from, say, a four inch revolver...the type of arm usually carried by police or people packing a gun concealed. A six inch barreled gun is just a tad large for CCW. Ballistics from some .357 Mag rounds are less than a lot of published ballistics for same; and many .357 SIG loads are clocked from four inch or less barrels....not a fair or accurate comparison if the revolver load is being rated from a six in barrel. Also, the .357 SIG is just a bit more difficult to handload, as the neck dimensions and neck tension have to be just right to keep the bullet static in the case during chambering. A casing out of spec, or a die that doesn't size to give good neck tension can create high pressures if it allows the bullet to be set back during chambering.
 
The ballistics are similar to the .357 magnum, but with reduced muzzle flash and recoil. It is a necked down .40S&W case with a .355 bullet. The real beauty of this cartridge is it's reliable feed and extraction, jams are rare when you fit a .355 bullet into a .40 chamber. I would suggest buying a .40S&W pistol like a SIG that all you need to change it over to a .357SIG is a barrel, same mags etc. Good pistol round, in professional use by some respected law enforcement agencies, I trust it to get the job done too.
 
I like the 357 Sig a lot. I've found the 357 Sig to be very reliable and accurate and mighty flat shooting at longer ranges compared to some other typical auto cartridges. It does make some noise but that part of the fun of it. There is a little bit of a learning curve if you reload for it.
 
IMHO, .357 sig can do nothing better than its parent case, the .40, which is quite a good round. The ONLY advantage in .357 sig that is touted that I see some merit in is that the bottle necked case might feed a little more reliably, but I have straight case ammo that are 100 percent, won't keep one that ain't.

It is NO .357 magnum, though. It does produce velocities within 100 fps of what I can get out of a 4" .357 firing hot 125 grain hollowpoints, but I like 140s for carry in my 3" magnum. The .357 magnum is a better field carry and hunting caliber, of course, due to its versatillity, .38 wadcutters for small game to 180 grain hog stompers for hunting and critter defense. With a 6" barrel, the .357 magnum is up there with the 10mm for power, far out paces the sig round, but the .357 magnum is sensitive to barrel length due to the bulky, slow powder of the big case. As a defense gun, .357 sig is fine, but so is .40 or .45 or 9mm +P or .38 special. I often carry 9x18 Mak and feel very confident with it.

So, as you might gather, I'm not a .357 sig fan and AM a .357 magnum fan. I do like my revolvers. The sig round is more of a marketing gimmick, came along to talk agencies that had carried the .357 revolver for years into carrying a 9. Call it a .357 and they'll come. It's a 9mm after all, .355" bore. And, in fact, 9mm+P+ come pretty danged close, though I wouldn't carry any +P+ round, myself. 9x21 will get her done, though. But, the DPS likes that ".357" moniker, so Sig's marketing did the job,. I reckon.
 
I find the 357 sig to be an accurate, hard hitting round. It's fun to shoot and hits really punchy. I happen to have a 357 mag and I don't think the 357 sig hits quite as hard has the mag, but it's close and I find it easier to shoot and slightly more accurate. I can attest to it being super flat shooting at least up to 100 yards. I don't know if that is attributable to me or my Glock 32, but it will put one one bullet on top of the other if i'm up to the task.

I like the round so much I started loading for it. It's the only caliber I currently load for, but I can see 45ACP working it's way into the rotation too.
 
The .357 Sig will, at it's top end, push light bullets from a 4-5" barrel almost as fast as moderate (common) .357 magnum loads from a 4-6" revolver. But it falls well short of true .357 magnum performance, which can exceed 800 ft/lbs.

The .357 Sig is not a bad round, but it's performance is so marginally above a 9mm+P load, it's cost high, and ammo availability not as good as 9mm or .40, that it really doesn't have alot to recommend it.

My own 9mm +P loads push 115 gr. JHP's at 1,410 FPS for 508 ft/lbs and 124's at 1,290 for 458 ft/lbs and 147's at 1,165 for 443 ft/lbs. I've run them even hotter than that, but feel that this is sufficient. I've had 90 grainers screaming out of my Baby Eagle at well over 1,600 FPS.

I've warmed up my .40 pretty good, too, getting 1,355 FPS/551 FPE with 135's and 1,245 FPS/534 FPE with 155's. And that's from a 4" S&W 4006.

And the 10mm or .45 Super)? Yeah, whole 'nother ballgame ;)
 
To compare to the +P 9mm loads, I can toss a 90 grn JHP over 1750 with my 229 sport using published data. I call them screamers and they are exceptionally accurate. You have to be careful though, on the 100 yrd range sometimes the jacket sheds and the round goes all over the place.

I like the 357 sig. It gives you 38 super like ballistics in a modern load. I have shot mine a great deal, and I am just shy of 10,000 rounds fired out of the 229 sport. It is an easy to reload, very accurate, reliable round. I only load aa9 in mine and normally I am pretty wimpy running 115 grn rem jhps with 13.5 grns of AA9. I get about 1515 out of the 229 sport with them. They are not full loads but are exceptionally accurate and just plain fun to shoot.

Here is an example of that load. 50 shots, 15 yrds offhand.
357sig_042510_2.jpg
 
Those Sig P229 Sports are impressively accurate. Back when I 1st got mine in the 90s, I picked up two boxes of the now obsolete Federal 150 grain HP factory load. I shot 4 or 5, five shot groups under 2" at 50 yards using a rest off a bench when testing the accuracy of the than new P229 Sport in 357 Sig.
 
Being new to handgun shooting you need not be concerned about either of the .357s right now. Neither is a beginner's caliber.
 
Respectfully, 21bubba, I disagree. I think .357 Magnum is an excellent caliber to begin with, especially with it's capabilities to use .38 Special. It's a well-established round that's easy to find at reasonable prices, easy to reload for (should he desire to), and can cover a wide variety of applications. Many people get along just with with only a .357 mag. If you're a revolver guy, what's not to like?

.357 Sig, I tend to agree with you, though I think even a beginning shooter could be happy with one, provided he/she does their homework.
 
Very happy with the Glock 31 I have in 357 SIG. Accurate and no FTF in many thousands of rounds.
How many 357 magnum guns do you know that can hold 15 rounds?

No, it is not up to a 357 mag with heavier bullets, but if you need heavier bullets, the 41, 44 or one of the 45's would be a better choice.

Reloading the SIG is a little more tidious mainly because of the short neck and maybe the bullet ogive requirements, but other than those, it is no harder than any other.

Get some AA#9, SPP, and 124 XTP bullets, set the die correctly and go to it.

During the "shortage", I never walked into my Walmart that there were not at least two or more boxes of 357 SIG on the shelf, zero 9mm, zero 357 mag, zero 40 S&W...

Jimmy K
 
IMHO, .357 sig can do nothing better than its parent case, the .40, which is quite a good round. The ONLY advantage in .357 sig that is touted that I see some merit in is that the bottle necked case might feed a little more reliably, but I have straight case ammo that are 100 percent, won't keep one that ain't.
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What he said. Only potential advantage is the .357 SIG will have better sectional density for a given bullet weight, while performing about the same as light-and-fast .40 S&W. And the people who like light and fast stuff usually don't gravitate towards higher sectional densities.

Me, I prefer 180 gr .40 S&Ws, at modest velocity.
 
MachIVshooter may I ask what powder you are running in your 9mm loads? I think your loads would quite a handful in my CW9.
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I guarantee they'd be unpleasant in that gun. I use use Unique and Blue dot with CCI magnum primers for the heavy loads.

I used Win 231 and mag primers for the 90 gr. loads. But they're about worthless, other than shooting varmints and such. Penetration with those bullets at that speed in ballistic clay is horrible. They just blow up.

MachIVshooter where did you find published data for 9mm +P loads?
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I didn't. I worked them up in strong guns (MRI Baby Eagle, S&W 5906).

If you guys want load details, you can PM me, understanding that you duplicate these at your own risk. I don't know what the pressures are from testing, as I don't own a strain gauge. It's mathematical calculation, which is just an educated guess. They may well be more than some guns can handle.
 
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IMO, what makes the 357sig shine is its ability to penetrate barriers, particularly vehicle bodies.
That was one of the big selling points as to why some state and local LE's changed from 40 cal to 357sig. My department did a test of most of the major defense calibers, and they ended up choosing the 357sig.

I like the caliber as far as a duty round, but I don't like to carry it off duty due to the ammo cost. FMJs are still in the $20 per 50 range. I normally shoot 200-300 rounds a week out of my G17, which I carry off duty due to it having the same external dimensions as my G31. 9mm is cheaper and I reload it so I can afford to shoot it more than I would the 357sig.

Another negative that I have noticed is the 357sig is prone to suffer bullet set back more than other calibers. I have returned at least 8 rounds back to the armorer within a year due to this.

Outside of the cost and set back issues, the 357sig is an excellent caliber. It shoots flat, and delivers good ballistics on target. In bonded bullet loads, it has shown to penetrate auto glass/bodies extremely well. I don't think that it competes with the 357mag on a one for one basis, but I think that it performs near the lower edges of the 357mag.
 
The 357 SIG was designed to approximate 357 Magnum ballistics in a semi auto pistol round. Since I reload I do not appreciate the additional steps required for loading a bottleneck cartrige round for pistol use. I stick to the straight walled calibers, 9mm, 40 S&W, 38Sp.357Mag, 45 ACP.
 
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