Elderly couple hold burglar at gunpoint

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springfield30-06

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CONCORD, N.Y. (WIVB) - A suspected burglar got a lot more than he bargained for in the town of Concord. He was no match for a no-nonsense elderly couple.

You don't mess with 68-year-old Kathleen Smith or her husband Charles. Neighbors are grateful to them for holding an alleged would-be burglar at gunpoint until State Police arrived.


Full story & video:
http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/crime/Elderly-couple-hold-burglar-at-gunpoint
 
Would you got for a gun? no I would go to the phone and get 911... Woah lol 911 = 5 mins away, looks like she needs a 1911 response time is about 5 seconeds :D
 
Would you got for a gun? no I would go to the phone and get 911
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Yeah, I rolled my eyes at that comment... especially saying that not long after a neighbor successfully stopped the robbery with a firearm.
 
I loved the overall tone. They did their best to make a positive gun use story sound like sheer luck. The state cop even got in on it. Instead of thanking the couple for helping him take a scumbag off the streets he chided them for having the gall to stand up to criminals.
 
I'm not sure that holding someone at gunpoint is the best strategy inside my home in the dark. This is something that I've wondered about, and I'm interested in opinions.

If seems to me that a criminal no longer poses a threat if he is a mile away, or if has 3 well-placed rounds in him. If he's standing in front of you in an enclosed space, he's still a threat. Certainly, he's less of a threat if you have him at gunpoint, but he could hang out for 5 minutes while your hand gets tired from holding the gun, then get it into his head to attack you, so he can get away, use you as a hostage when the cops arrive, etc. How fast could you shoot accurately after holding a gun for 5 minutes? What's your reaction time if you're not expecting an attack, and have been standing for a long time?

So, it would seem to me that, while it's best for the community if the guy gets arrested, what's best for ME is to point the gun at him and tell him to drop whatever he has, get the hell out of my house, and keep on running. If he doesn't want to do that, and chooses instead to attack me or my family, then I go for second-best (messy, ugly, with potential nasty psychological and legal ramifications) and pull the trigger repeatedly until he poses no threat any more.

It's not my problem to arrest him. I'm not trained in criminal apprehension, so I'm risking my own life inordinately, just to see that he gets arrested. So I have to figure that getting him out of my house is priority 1 (which he'd be happy to do 99% of the time), and shooting him because he refuses and attacks me is Plan B. I don't see "hold him at gunpoint" in there.

Thoughts?
 
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Im with ArmedBear. That is the best way to handle it, or at least that is how I have been taught. You can always ID him later. I would NOT call 911, and wait around though. My grandfather always said "The sound of a pump action takes care of 99% of robbers." Whether or not that is true, even when I do that in my house it gives me the chills. Its a intimidating sound.
 
I pretty much agree. However, I don't know if I would tell him to run, but I certainly won't tell him to stay. I might just instruct him to freeze, keep hands where I can see him, I'm armed and will defend myself if he makes any sudden moves, etc. Call the cops and wait. If he's in a position to, and he makes a quick escape, I'll be relieved, but if he decides to lay on the ground and wait with me, I don't think I would order him up and out of the house. I absolutely can not rely on the cycling sound that my firearm makes, to give me the results I'm looking for. I could only rely on my level of training and the power of the ammo.

And of course, from what I've read on the internet, this old couple will get sued into the grave for unlawful imprisonment of the alleged burglar. Whether that actually happens with regularity in these type of cases, I'd be surprised.
 
It's my understanding that nearly all burglars will be more than happy to leave when they encounter an armed homeowner. Those who will attack, instead, will likely attack you when you're holding them at gunpoint -- they're just looking for a good opportunity.

What I don't want is a very frightened, adrenaline-pumped, presumably pretty stupid, criminal in an enclosed space with me, any more than I want to hang out in a cage with a wild tiger.
 
I'd sleep easier knowing the guy is behind bars rather than the possibility of coming back for revenge, with friends. But then again the PD would probably release him within 24 hours anyway.
I think cycling the action would cause 99% of bad guys who don't want a confrontation to flee. Of course if you get the 1% you just gave away your position and let them know to come at you firing.
 
Everybody thinks racking the pump on a shotgun scares away criminals, but I can tell you, if you have the balls to break into and enter someones home, a pump rack won't do squat. I've never read of a case where a badguy was scared off due to the sound of a pump being racked.
 
I certainly don't want a criminal invader to be in proximity to me either. Sitting comfortably at my keyboard this morning, I would want to help the community out by getting him into cuffs, but I don't want to 'detain' him. And in that moment, as I'm on the edge of soiling myself, I might not be able to do much other than to repeatedly scream "GET OUT!!", and hope that I keep a hold of my gun.

Racking Alarm...

I've read a number of posts here, where members detail a break-in while they were home and racking their pump caused the BG to exit hastily. I don't doubt that it happens. But I'm not going to rely one that on whit. Nope, for all I know, the BG has his iPod cranked up to the tunes of Snoop Dogg.
 
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Never been there or done that. I would be concerned about "running him off" because 1) I could have shot, but didn't shoot and 2) Now he knows that my home has valuables AND guns. I worry that those two factors would embolden and entice him to come back with a few friends.

In my mind, if they're in my home by force or by stealth, after proper target identification and ONE order to get on their face, if they do anything other than a faceplant - I'm firing.
 
Just a generalization here, because each and every situation will be different.

If some puke breaks into your home and you confront him with your firearm, IF, I say again, IF he (or she) doesn't break and run like a scalded dog and just stands there, you must demand he turn away from you with his hands behind his head, fingers interrlaced.

You must not allow him to stand there looking at you, 'cause the long odds are, if he's not scared enough of you and your gun to run, he's figuring some way to get an angle on you.

Put as much distance as you can, safely, between you and the criminal. Do not take your eyes off him, especially his hands. (There is an old saying in the LEO business, "Watch his hands, not his eyes! His hands are going to kill you, not his eyes!")

Do not engage him in any conversation. Speak only your demands for him to turn away from you. (I would demand from his turned away position, he get on his knees, then down on the floor, his hands behind him and legs crossed, but that's just me.) Do not ever try and search and/or restrain him. Once you approach him, you get into his "kill zone," and that's where he wants you.

If he starts to run for the door, etc., do not shoot him in the back!!!!!!! At that point, be a good witness for the cops. Eventually, they'll apprehend him.

Just my take on it.

L.W.
 
ArmedBear said:
So, it would seem to me that, while it's best for the community if the guy gets arrested, what's best for ME is to point the gun at him and tell him to drop whatever he has, get the hell out of my house, and keep on running. If he doesn't want to do that, and chooses instead to attack me or my family, then I go for second-best (messy, ugly, with potential nasty psychological and legal ramifications) and pull the trigger repeatedly until he poses no threat any more.
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Agreed. It is extremely dangerous to try to hold anyone at gunpoint, especially alone (as I am), let alone stay on the phone with the police while doing so. The danger is not only for you, but even for the intruder, as under stress it might be possible to shoot him unintentionally. (This is one reason I don't like light trigger pulls on defensive handguns.) The couple in the story had an advantage here in that they could work as a team.
 
In my mind, if they're in my home by force or by stealth, after proper target identification and ONE order to get on their face, if they do anything other than a faceplant - I'm firing.
Click to expand...

You may be more of a humanitarian than I am.

Let's hope neither of us ever finds out.

KR.
 
It's like my 65 yr old father always says... "I'm too old to run from you and have too many health problems to fight you so I'll just shoot you and save us both the trouble. How fast can YOU run?".
 
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