Elk Rifle Scope

[jjduller1946]

Fellow shooters,

I am pretty close to buying a Browning A-Bolt Stainless 338 Win Mag with BOSS. I am using my plan to go elk hunting in Eastern Montana next Fall as an excuse to get this new set up. I know my 30-06 will do just fine. Sometimes you just need a little rationale to buy a new gun. For example, I explained to my wife that at 200 yards the 338 with 225 gr bullet generates 50% more ft lbs than my 30-06 with my standard 165 gr bullet. At 300 yds the same 338 round has 200 ft lbs of energy more than the 30-06 at 100 yds. So you can see that with the possibility of 300 yard shots in the Missouri breaks, I clearly need this rifle! After all, I have not bought a new set of golf clubs for years...

Now that I have softened up my bride on why I need this rifle, I hope to get your advice on a scope.

I think a 2-10x(40-44mm) scope is what makes sense to me. My thinking is that you need to be able to have a low power for a close shot in the wood and enough power for longer range shots.

Now I know most of you have an attachment of a particular brand. I am not particularly entranced with name brand. My impression is that th optics business has been making the kind of advances that cell phones have made. Her are the candidates that have come up so far:

Simmons 2.8-10x44 Aetec Master Rifle Scope - $159-189. Chuck Hawkes had nice things to say about this one. See http://www.swfa.com/pc-4715-704-simmons-28-10x44-aetec-master-rifle-scope.aspx

Leupold 3-9x40 VX-II Riflescope - $299. See: http://www.swfa.com/pc-3463-86-leupold-3-9x40-vx-ii-riflescope.aspx

Bushnell 2.5-10x40 Elite 4200 Rifle Scope - $369 See: http://www.swfa.com/pc-1278-185-bushnell-25-10x40-elite-4200-rifle-scope.aspx​

Thanks in advance for your advice and experience!

 

[George Hill]

Read through this:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=312408
Looking at your picks, I'd go with the Leupold there.

 

[.41Dave]

Of the 3 you listed, I'd pick the Bushnell Elite 4200. They are tough, have better glass than the Leupold or Simmons, and the rainguard feature is very nice if you are hunting in wet weather. A few others I'd recommend for consideration:

3-9x40 Zeiss Conquest - My choice. I replaced my Leupold VXII with the Zeiss. The Zeiss beats the Leupold VXII handily, but is $100 more.
http://www.swfa.com/pc-1525-259-zeiss-3-9x40-conquest-rifle-scope.aspx

3-9x42 Sightron SII - Don't let the low price fool you, these are great scopes, and give very high value for the dollar.
http://www.swfa.com/pc-10603-1514-sightron-3-9x42-sii-riflescope.aspx

2.5-10x42 Nikon Monarch - Excellent all around scopes.
http://www.swfa.com/pc-8759-218-nikon-25-10x42-monarch-riflescope.aspx

 

[skinewmexico]

I've got an elite 4200 that is amazing. And I've looked thru some Sightrons that were great too. You can usually find anything that SWFA has somewhere else for less too.

 

[rcmodel]

I'd probably go for a 2x - 7x for it's lighter weight, lower mounting, low light ability, and wider field of view for timber.

You sure don't need a 10x scope to shoot an elk.

The old 30-06 with a 3 or 4x Weaver or Redfield has probably killed more elk then all the 10x sniper scopes combined!


rcmodel

 

[jjduller1946]

41Dave, skinewmexico, rcmodel,

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[skinewmexico]

The old 30-06 with a 3 or 4x Weaver or Redfield has probably killed more elk then all the 10x sniper scopes combined!

Excellent point. And they were hunted almost to extinction with a 30-30.

 

[JerryM]

I would go for something like a 2x7 or a 3x9 with smallest objective lens available in a quality scope such as Leupold. I have one that is 2.5x8, and is little larger than a 6x.
I never found that a straight 4x was a handicap when hunting big game. For antelope a good variable is a help. I used a spotting scope if I wanted to trophy hunt.

Jerry

 

[George Hill]

Elk and deer have a curious habit during hunting season... when they feel hunting pressure they almost become totally nocturnal. At least the big bulls do. This means when you are hunting for a big one, your best chances are Early morning or late evening... during fading light. This being the case why would you handicap yourself with a small diameter objective that doesn't bring in as much light as a 40MM? You don't need a coffee can sized objective, but it beats a tootsie roll. This is one reason I'm also a fan of 30MM sized tubes. More light through the lens, more light through the tube, more light to the eye... means you can see that big bull all the better. Hunting is all about getting an edge over the prey. If you want to handicap yourself for a challenge, use a handgun or a Bow. (Hoyt Vectrix!)

 

[phantomak47]

Bushnell or Leupold.........Bushnell is the best scope out there for the money.

 

[dakotasin]

jj- i have spent a ton of time on the missouri river breaks chasing critters. i have never hunted montana, nor do i have any desire to, but i know the missouri river, and its breaks pretty well. that said, i would suggest you seriously consider a leupold 4.5-14 or 4-12, or something along those lines. weight will become a factor in your hunt, so keep an eye on the scale. be prepared to take a long shot (my number 1 and number 3 longest kills have come from the mo's breaks).

i would also advise you talk to a local hunter who knows the area and seek his advice (www.baitshopboyz.com is full of montana natives that hunt that area).

good luck!

 

[CB900F]

JJ;

I'm based in Great Falls. I hunt elk. My .338 Winchester magnum wears a Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10X 44mm mil-dot.

The load is: 225 grain Hornady over 75.5 grains of RL19 in Winchester cases with CCI magnum primers. This generates 2900 fps over my Oehler 35P from the Tikka Whitetail Hunter LHB.

The Zeis is outstanding glass. No, in cost comparison its not bargain glass, it's just optically superior & worth it in my opinion.

900F

 

[.41Dave]

It's a common fallacy that a 30mm tube transmits more light than a 1" tube. It doesn't. The only real advantage a 30mm tube gives you is greater range for windage and elevation adjustments. A 40mm objective definitely transmits more light than say a 32mm objective, but anything over 7mm exit pupil is no use to anyone, and most of us, especially as we get older don't get any more benefit over 5mm or 6mm of exit pupil. at 5x, a scope with a 32mm objective gives you 6.4mm of exit pupil. If you have good glass, this will be plenty bright.

 

[rcmodel]

.41 Dave
+1

If you can't see it through a 2-7 Leupold or other quality scope, it's way too dark to be shooting at an elk.


rcmodel

 

[George Hill]

From Wiki:

Image brightness and clarity:
In a system designed for direct visual observation, the exit pupil should be about the size of the pupil of the observer's eye, and it should be placed a comfortable distance past the eyepiece, so the observer can place his or her pupil in the plane of the exit pupil. This allows the maximum amount of light to reach the retina, and the image is not vignetted.

For example, a set of 7 x 50 binoculars has an exit pupil just over 7 mm, the average human eye pupil size at night. The emergent light at the eyepiece then fills the eye's pupil, meaning no loss of brightness at night due to using such binoculars (assuming perfect transmission). In daylight, when the pupil is only 4 mm in diameter, over half the light will not reach the retina. However, the loss of light in the daytime is generally not significant since there is so much light to start with. By contrast, 8 x 32 binoculars, often sold with emphasis on their compactness, have an exit pupil of only 4 mm. That's just enough to fill a typical daytime eye pupil, making these binoculars better suited to daytime use than night-time.

The point isn't just about shooting the elk, but spotting it, judging it, deciding weather or not it's a shooter, scoring it, and comparing one bull to another... and do that at a distance.
The Uintah Basin is very similar to Montana terrain wise. We do take some long shots.

 

[.41Dave]

The point isn't just about shooting the elk, but spotting it, judging it, deciding weather or not it's a shooter, scoring it, and comparing one bull to another... and do that at a distance.

No disagreement there George. I was only trying to point out that the magnification is also a factor in light transmission, not just the objective size. Of course, the lens and lens coating quality has a large part to play in low light performance as well. As for the 7mm average pupil size, well, 7mm is the average human exit pupil for young-uns. As we age, unfortunately our pupils dilate less, and our night vision gets weaker. I had a rude awakening to this last year when my then 12 year old daughter and I were out stargazing one night, and I realized to my dismay that she could see stars that I could not! for those of us in our 40s, 6mm is closer to the truth, and when we're in our 50s or 60s, it is more likely closer to 5mm.

 

[rcmodel]

spotting it, judging it, deciding weather or not it's a shooter, scoring it, and comparing one bull to another

You use your rifle scope for that?
I thought thats what a good pair of 10x binoculars were for.

I won't go hunting without some!


rcmodel

 

[George Hill]

10's nice. My rifle scope goes to 14. (VX-III) But no, I usually don't hunt with it at that power setting. But sometimes it helps.
Let me tell you a little story. I had my scope laid on a good sized buck one time. This was a buck I had helped scout out several weeks before hand. We had used a Swarovski spotting scope during the scouting. Now here it was during the hunt, and we found it again. It looked fine. In fact, it looked great. I had my scope on 6. I decided to crank the scope up. When I did I was able to really examine the antlers. I was able to make out that one of the tines was busted off. Jousting during the rut and took some damage. Would never have seen that at 6 power. That scope made the difference between a good trophy and a just a trophy. We let that buck pass.
Now, that was last year. This year, my buddy found him again. He now has a friggin awesome trophy.
Optics make all the difference between a good hunt and a great hunt. Don't cheat yourself by cheaping out on optics. That's all I'm saying. Same thing when buying tires for your sports car. You could just save money and get those average all seasons or you could get those Pilot Sports. Dude - Get the Pilot Sports. You will NEVER say getting the good tires was a mistake. Scopes work the same way... you will never look back a couple years later and say "Yeah, I should have just gone with the lesser scope."

 

[eliphalet]

Lots of good info and statements in this thread.
But to the OP's question I would choose the Leupold on a 338 Magnum if for no other reason than decades of proven quality and ruggedness in the field.
I can see where the higher magnification could be real handy at times but of the dozens of game animals I have shot from 50' or so to farther than I want to admit IIRC 6X was as high as I ever used and 4X would have undoubtedly worked OK then.
I do keep a pair of 8X bino's around my neck finding the higher powers hard to hold as steady as I like in hunting situations. Also along or at least no farther than the rig will be a 15X45X60 Bausch & Lomb Elite spotting scope I bought several years ago before Bushnell bought the co.
Real spendy glass is nicer I know, but hopefully being a smart and informed consumer good enough glass can be had without spending a small fortune.

 

[Wildfire]

4200 or Zeiss.

That 4200 has a rear focus and the rain guard. 10x is NOT too high for longer shots. You may zoom in and decide not to shoot the one on the left and go for the one that is 30 yards farther out with a bigger rack. But with a 3 or 4X you will not see that difference at 200 or 300 yards. Both of these scope are very well built. So is that Leupold But it does not have the same features.
Like the Rain Guard, and rear focus. That Zeiss Conquest is The American made Version and should be a very nice scope.
That 4200 Elite Is still a Bausch & Lomb. They are owned by Bushnell.
B&L make some of the top quality scopes out there. You will also like the turrets a lot. Have Fun.

 

[jjduller1946]

CB900F, Thanks for the spefic info on your setup and load for your 338 WM.

I had a reloading setup years ago that got wet while I was overseas and was destroyed. Thinking about the price of 338 WM ammo has me doing a little cost - benefit analysis that I hope will impress my bride.

What reloading setup do you recommend? Lee?

Thanks,

 

[45crittergitter]

Try the Leupold VXIII in 2.5-8x. All of mine have been sent back for the heavy duplex reticle. You won't be sorry.