Enemy prisonor abuse

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borodin

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I am sure that what I am about to say will inherit flames from anyone with a liberal cell in their body, however, I offer the following........

Why are we shocked (some of us) at the fact that prisoners of war have been abused? I mean, this is not Hogan's Heros. We Americans are a proud and reslilient nation and most of the people I know are ready to defend our country no matter what the cost. And those who wrong us deserve our wrath.....why....because we can! Here is where the liberals will step in........

I admit......even I have questioned the Iraq war, however, I am making an educated guess that the prisoners of war at GITMO were from Afganistan and other countries....I may be wrong....

As far as Iraq, I think we need to get the hell out of there. But we do have prisoners that are reaping what they have sown.

Go ahead and flame me now
 
*Pauses a moment*
They deserved what they got?...
*Another moment*
They deserved this?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40183000/jpg/_40183443_boxes_ap.jpg
Or this?
http://www.digitaljournal.com/photo/040508Iraqi-Prisoner-Abuse.jpg
Especially this.
http://www.freelists.org/archives/bpstep6/05-2004/jpg02622.jpg

And yes, sir, I am a liberal, and no, sir, I won't flame you for your opinion. I will say, however, say that we shouldn't sink to the level of the insurgents, because whats the point of fighting a just war unjustly?
 
Yeah, my heart pumps purple piss for those prisoners :rolleyes:

Ask an American who has been a POW in any war if they would have traded their experiences for wearing a pair of woman's underwear over their head for an hour, having to pose naked with other men for a few minutes or have, Ohmygosh, a dog bark at them.

These Iraqis were the same people who raped children and put people through woodchippers, and cut off the heads of hostages.


What our soldiers did to these prisoners would be typical antics at a frat party in our country, or at the very worst are perversions that wealthy middle aged men pay good money to have done to them.

We have become a nation of Goddamn sissies if this is all we have to worry about. :fire:
 
No Niko, they didn't deserve that. They deserved painful bodily harm and a slow agonizing death. But all they got was psychologically played in order to subdue them, control them, and extract necessary information from them. These aren't jaywalkers and double parkers. One of the poor helpless victims in those photos raped and murdered five women including two little girls.

Be careful when you ask for justice. Almost no one can stand real justice, especially thugs like these.
 
If not being able to stomach the absolute disregard to human life makes me a sissy, then fine. I'm proud. I do not think that these men should go unpunished, but those things that are done to them are completely uncalled for. I heard one of you say that they are the kind of things a frat would do, well, then I am humiliated to support our troops. If they behave like drunk colledge frat boys, then I sincerly am ashamed to be an American who supports them. I would hope the people that represent our nation in foreign countries would be better than that. Of course, fine...everyone gets their opinion. I just don't...I don't approve of people taking things into their own hands. I think we should (those of us that believe) read our bibles, and actually do what they say, instead of making stuff up and using them to justify horrible things that we do. People used the bible to burn witches, no where did they have proof the women were witches, and we aren't allowed to pass judgement. JUst as we have no right to do the things we do to people just because we feel that they are worth less than we are. FOr those of us that are Christian, everything like this should make us heart sick. We know better. We are human beings, and for once, I think the American people should stand up and act like Human beings. Especially those in a place of power. Honestly, if we whine about how the morals of America are going down the drain, TAKE A LOOK AROUND! NO WONDER THESE PEOPLE HATE US!! WE HAVE THEM SUBDUED AND CAPTURED, AND WE TORMENT THEM! Do we think its right to hit a caged or beaten animal?! NO! so why is it any different from these men?! ALL HAVE SINNED AND DESERVE DEATH! ALL!! NOT JUST THE MEN ON SOME OTHER COUNTRIES SOIL!
 
If not being able to stomach the absolute disregard to human life makes me a sissy, then fine. I'm proud
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How exactly did the Army show an 'absolute disregard' for human life? This I want to hear. Do you know secret information of beheadings carried out by our troops or of a road to Baghdad lined with Iraqi corpses on poles? Once again, I'd really like to know how putting a pair of woman's underwear over a man's head is an 'absolute disregard' for human life. :rolleyes:

BTW the troops that were involved with this 'scandal' were quickly brought to justice.


TAKE A LOOK AROUND! NO WONDER THESE PEOPLE HATE US!! WE HAVE THEM SUBDUED AND CAPTURED, AND WE TORMENT THEM!
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Take a deep breath in, and let it out slowly.

They hated us for a long time before any of this happened. They hate us because of our free society. They hate us for our freedom of expression and artistic creativity that stems from it. They hate us for our wealth and prosperity. They hate us because we treat our women as equals.
 
Whoa-wait a minute. These people, by and large were being detained because they MIGHT know some information, NOT because they were convicted of committing heinous crimes. The detainees were there in the hopes of getting information to save lives, not some twisted sick fun by some abject morons too bored with their situation.

If you were a witness to a gang shooting and the police were detaining you, do they have a right to stack you in a pile of nude human beings?
Will putting a dog collar and have you lead around by an ugly female going to make you talk?

I would have less of an issue if these people had been caught red handed doing something to Americans or the civilian population, but I still do not see what was accomplished by these kinds of actions. Can anyone give me a clue as to how this kind of treatment is going to cause them to divulge information? That is conduct unbecoming, plain and simple. Out of all the Geneva convention lectures I had, and all of the E&E courses I took, I did not hear of this kind of treatment.
 
Before anyone else invokes the "If you ever met an american pow..." clause, talk to a P.O.W. These men went to war and came back husks of their old selves, but those lucky ones who made it back alive wouldn't wish what happened to them to be repeated on ANY human being, be that enemy or otherwise. Simply avenging our abused soldiers by abusing other soldiers isn't right, no matter how bad the soldiers are. Two wrongs don't make anything but a sea of wrongs.

And a note about the Justice... It's not payback, revenge, or Eye for an Eye. Justice is something that rarely (if ever) involves sodomizing the offender, and if you look at those pictures, its not any incarnation even in the general VICINITY of Justice.

(And I sincerely apologize about the rapist, I didn't know he was among the abused, but as they say, vengeance is His.)
 
All I can say about those so worried about the prisoners welfare is where have you people been. What about the atrocities those detained people watched and condoned and danced in the steet!! :banghead:
 
I refuse to pass judgment on the troops involved in this "scandal." Not because I condone abusing prisoners, but rather I do not know all the details. All WE know is what the press tells us, and you know they always speak the truth, especially when it has to do with the war, Pres Bush, guns, and anything else for that matter. Besides, this whole "the command didn't know" is nothing but a steaming pile of fresh male bovine scat.
 
Whoa-wait a minute. These people, by and large were being detained because they MIGHT know some information, NOT because they were convicted of committing heinous crimes. The detainees were there in the hopes of getting information to save lives, not some twisted sick fun by some abject morons too bored with their situation.

If you were a witness to a gang shooting and the police were detaining you, do they have a right to stack you in a pile of nude human beings?
Will putting a dog collar and have you lead around by an ugly female going to make you talk?
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Right!

These Iraqis were the same people who raped children and put people through woodchippers, and cut off the heads of hostages
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Wrong.
 
BFD!!!!

So a few terrorists had women's panties put over their head for photos! What about the civilian contractors who now have no heads???

What happened at GITMO was the equavalent of a college hazing.

What they do to our people are atrocities and crimes against humanity!

That the left cannot distinguish between the two bespeaks their blind political agenda.

a.
 
Good Lord! Haven't any of you ever heard of presumption of innocence? Or do you have some incontrovertible proof of guilt of the guys in the pictures?

This makes me sick. It's what I came to this country to get away from...
 
At least this isn't protestwarrior or freerepublic. I find those people as sickening as DUers.. just in different ways.
 
Good Lord! Haven't any of you ever heard of presumption of innocence? Or do you have some incontrovertible proof of guilt of the guys in the pictures?
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In case you haven't been aware, there has been a little thing called a 'war' going on in Iraq for the last 2 years. I know this comes as a shock to some people, but sometimes civil rights are suspended or even violated in conducting wars. Surely those of you who preach moral equivalency in every other situation can see that what has been done by our side is nothing and in reality, harmless compared to what our enemies are doing.
 
In case you haven't been aware, there has been a little thing called a 'war' going on in Iraq for the last 2 years. I know this comes as a shock to some people, but sometimes civil rights are suspended or even violated in conducting wars. Surely those of you who preach moral equivalency in every other situation can see that what has been done by our side is nothing and in reality, harmless compared to what our enemies are doing.
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First I thought this was Satire, then I realised that you were serious. At that moment I wanted to cry. Hah, The High Road? I think not.
 
This is hard to believe.

A couple of points:

1. Someone from the intel community working at gitmo was interviewed today on the radio, and he made reference to a number of prisoners who were there bot no-one could figure out why they were there. People with no ties to anything, with no associations with anyone, with no intelligence to give us. Gitmo tried to release them but for its own reasons the administration kept them, and kept them and kept them...

2. The same thing happened at Abu Gharaib (sp.) Random folks were occasionally grabbed off the streets and taken to the facility, where it was someone else's job to figure out whether they belonged there or not. No charges, no witnesses, no real suspicion in many cases.

These aren't convicts, they're frigging suspects, We're not talking about anyone who was throwing people into woodchippers, or torturing GIs, or beheading contractors, or anything like that.

These were people who were picked up for questioning, and we saw fit to hold them for years, without charges, without any clear status, and oh yeah -- we let privates with < 80 IQs torture them for giggles.

Something bad happened here. It's not OK.
 
What happened to the old saying "All's fair in love and war"?

We don't have war anymore. A war with rules is not war at all.

War has no rules.
 
These were people who were picked up for questioning, and we saw fit to hold them for years, without charges, without any clear status, and oh yeah -- we let privates with < 80 IQs torture them for giggles.
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But they're brown skinned and are Muslims so that makes them terrarists. Plus some people not even related to them hurt our guys so it's ok. :rolleyes:
 
These Iraqis were the same people who ... put people through woodchippers
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Nobody doubts that Saddam was a cruel and ruthless tyrant who murdered many thousands of his own people (290,000 according to Human Rights Watch) and that the vast majority of Iraqis are glad he’s gone. But did his regime have a human-shredding machine that made mincemeat of men? The evidence is far from compelling. The deeper you dig into this story, the more it falls apart like the claim made in 1990 that Iraqi soldiers supposedly removed Kuwaiti babies from their incubators.

What our soldiers did to these prisoners would be typical antics at a frat party in our country,
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Declassified US government documents describe how soldiers punched a prisoner in the face "to the point he needed medical attention," failed to record the medical treatment, and confiscated DIA photos of the injuries. Soldiers urinated on prisoners, threatened to rape them, sodomized them with sticks and chemical lights, deprived them of sleep, beat, kicked, and slapped them, and restricted their breathing with hoods. Some detainees were beaten to death. Others were electrocuted, burned with cigarettes, attacked (not just threatened) by guard dogs, etc.

If these constitute "typical antics at a frat party," then please do not invite me to your next party.

BTW the troops that were involved with this 'scandal' were quickly brought to justice.
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Just a few bad apples, eh? Similar rationalizations were offered after US war crimes at My Lai were uncovered. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

The higher-ups pass the buck and blame the grunts in the field. There is evidence that abuses at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo are the direct result of administration policies.

I do not know all the details. All WE know is what the press tells us, and you know they always speak the truth, especially when it has to do with the war, Pres Bush, guns, and anything else for that matter.
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The truth is out there. Remember that they didn't even allow us to see the worst photos.

Further reading:
_Chain of Command : The Road from 9/11 to Abu Ghraib_ by Seymour M. Hersh (HarperCollins: 2004).
_The Torture Papers: The Road to Abu Ghraib_ by Karen J. Greenberg et al. (Cambridge University Press: 2005).
_Torture and Truth: America, Abu Ghraib, and the War on Terror_
by Mark Danner (New York Review Books: October 10, 2004).
 
Maybe I didn't get the memo that we had switched to the Napoleonic code, but I thought we still operated under "Innocent until found guilty."

Here we are, complaining that illegal immigrants don't follow our rules and go with our system, and then we turn around and ignore our own rules when it comes to "terrorists"? How does that in any way make us not hypocrites? It's OK for us to flagrantly disregard the rules with Arabic-speaking brown-skinned people, but if the Spanish-speakers don't follow the rules we should round them up, deport them, mine the border, and erect the new Berlin Wall?
 
Here we are, complaining that illegal immigrants don't follow our rules and go with our system, and then we turn around and ignore our own rules when it comes to "terrorists"? How does that in any way make us not hypocrites? It's OK for us to flagrantly disregard the Arabic-speaking brown-skinned people, but if the Spanish-speakers don't follow the rules we should round them up, deport them, mine the border, and erect the new Berlin Wall?
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Who cares, they're both brown and don't eat apple pie.
 
Interesting how its always the politically correct and tollerant leeberals who feel the need to inject skin color into a conversation :rolleyes:
 
OK, ignore my mention of skin color if it riles you so much. I know perfectly well that not all Americans are white - I'm not, and I'm as American as anybody else.

So, the point still stands: we are willing to act towards one group of people with disregard for our own rules, laws, and guidelines, while expecting another group to follow ours? And both are justified? What isn't wrong with this?
 
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