Enfield fun

[MosinT53Hunter]

Well, they are finally here. Three Enfields, all Ishapore, in one way or another.
I'm going to have a lot fun tearing them apart, grease and all.

1st, top: Ishapore 410, receiver dated 1917, converted 1939

2nd, middle: Ishapore Enfield, drill rifle, dated 1957.

3rd, bottom: Ishapore, scrubbed at sometime at an armory. Dated 1960, but faint markings of a much earlier date, as it has the magazine cut off slit in the receiver.

Over all, I couldn't be happier! The plan is to use the metal bands and bits to complete the 1960 Enfield, and to use the wood from the drill rifle for the 410, as its in terrible condition for the stock. A repair on it is coming apart. But, I will have fun doing it.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

You're a better man than I, Gunga Din!

Looks like fun. Is the shotgun conversion functional? I've considered buying one someday for grins, but they don't come through my neighborhood very often -- at least, not in very good condition. As a class, they seem to have led hard lives.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

You're a better man than I, Gunga Din!

Looks like fun. Is the shotgun conversion functional? I've considered buying one someday for grins, but they don't come through my neighborhood very often -- at least, not in very good condition. As a class, they seem to have led hard lives.

The .410s are a hoot! My daughter has pretty much laid claim to mine-

Ours is in great condition, but ya, they dont come along now like they did when they were $35 in the Shotgun News.

 

[wiscoaster]

I'm going to have a lot fun tearing them apart, grease and all.

That's the spirit!! If you're not going to be having fun, there's no other reason really sufficient to be in milsurps.

 

[MosinT53Hunter]

You're a better man than I, Gunga Din!

Looks like fun. Is the shotgun conversion functional? I've considered buying one someday for grins, but they don't come through my neighborhood very often -- at least, not in very good condition. As a class, they seem to have led hard lives.

It will be functional, at some point in the future. Currently, the bolt will not come out, the bolt head is being stubborn, so I have DW-40 on it right now. The bolt firing pin is broken as well, and it has a dead trigger. But, I always love a great challenge. Plus, for $125, I couldn't pass up on it.

 

[MosinT53Hunter]

That's the spirit!! If you're not going to be having fun, there's no other reason really sufficient to be in milsurps.

Often I pass up other mil-surp in gun stores because there is no challenge, no history to discover in them. These, they are old, all different, each with its own unique history. I am grinning from ear to ear right now. Tempted to order maybe more drill rifles. Who knows.

 

[MosinT53Hunter]

The .410s are a hoot! My daughter has pretty much laid claim to mine-
View attachment 946348
Ours is in great condition, but ya, they dont come along now like they did when they were $35 in the Shotgun News.

Or those wire wrapped ones that were $65 so long ago. Enfields are just so interesting, because the British never throw anything away, just recycled them over and over again. Plus, even the drill rifles are going up in price, now is the time to jump on them. I also have a huge liking for No1, MKIII's.

 

[Terry G]

Fun to shoot and would get my vote as the best bolt action of WWII. I like the MK 4 a lot, but the MKIII, with that menacing snub nose is my favorite.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I’ll contest that vote TerryG!
I assert it was the P17 Enfield!
Superior cartridge (.30/06); stronger action; better sights (elevator with apertures)- inspired #4Mk1 sights,
Better Pike (longer, 26”bbl), better accuracy (though I do adore my #4Mk1!) similar fire power 6rds vs 10rds.
Besides, it’s what Alvin York used!
Made in America!
Still in service after over 100yrs with Danish Sirius dog patrols in Greenland.

 

[Terry G]

I’ll contest that vote TerryG!
I assert it was the P17 Enfield!
Superior cartridge (.30/06); stronger action; better sights (elevator with apertures)- inspired #4Mk1 sights,
Better Pike (longer, 26”bbl), better accuracy (though I do adore my #4Mk1!) similar fire power 6rds vs 10rds.
Besides, it’s what Alvin York used!
Made in America!
Still in service after over 100yrs with Danish Sirius dog patrols in Greenland.

Ah, but I said WWII. The P17 was only used for training in WWII. My Father trained with one. The P17 is my Best Friends Deer rifle, and he would be an even better Friend if he would sell it to me.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Ah, but I said WWII. The P17 was only used for training in WWII. My Father trained with one. The P17 is my Best Friends Deer rifle, and he would be an even better Friend if he would sell it to me.

The M1917's .303 predecessor, the P14, played a more significant role in WWII, albeit mostly with duffers my age in the Home Guard/LDV. It helped make good critical rifle shortages following Dunkirk.



The scoped version of the P14 MkI W (T) also saw some limited frontline action in WWII.

 

[indy1919a4]

I have always yearned for the 8mm p14

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

I have always yearned for the 8mm p14

I have to wonder whether those started life as M1917s instead of P-14s -- the conversion would have be far easier since the 30-06 boltface has the same dimension. I've heard rumors about 8mm Enfields in both China and Spain, but I've not seen any solid documentation explaining the hows and whys thus far. Have you encountered anything about them in print?

This interesting article mentions P-14s in the Spanish Civil War in the original .303 chambering: https://surplused.com/index.php/2020/06/15/foreign-rifles-of-the-spanish-republic-1936-1939/

For myself, rarities I would really love to shoot are the shortened 41" Chinese M1917s and the Remington M1934 in 7mm Mauser.

 

[indy1919a4]

I have to wonder whether those started life as M1917s instead of P-14s -- the conversion would have be far easier since the 30-06 boltface has the same dimension. I've heard rumors about 8mm Enfields in both China and Spain, but I've not seen any solid documentation explaining the hows and whys thus far. Have you encountered anything about them in print?

This interesting article mentions P-14s in the Spanish Civil War in the original .303 chambering: https://surplused.com/index.php/2020/06/15/foreign-rifles-of-the-spanish-republic-1936-1939/

For myself, rarities I would really love to shoot are the shortened 41" Chinese M1917s and the Remington M1934 in 7mm Mauser.

There is not alot out there on 8mm p-14s... But the Rumors are that England had a lot of surplus p14s and wanted to get rid of them. So England sold the rifles as surplus and they were converted in Belgium and sold them to many 3rd world countries. But China seems to be the country most mentioned.

Now that SCW article you linked is awesome.. Wonderful Photos and a good read to Boot..

2 things that jump out me,, Who took some of those photos. Some almost look like government evidence photos to
document outside Republican support. And that photo of that unscrubbed Polish rifle is mind blowing.

It begs the question who scrubbed those Polish SCW rifles... ???? If the Poles scrubbed them did this one slip through??? Or did the Spanish scrub them post war..???

This is a disturbing photo... Thanks for posting

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Now that SCW article you linked is awesome.. Wonderful Photos and a good read to Boot..

2 things that jump out me,, Who took some of those photos. Some almost look like government evidence photos to
document outside Republican support. And that photo of that unscrubbed Polish rifle is mind blowing.

It begs the question who scrubbed those Polish SCW rifles... ???? If the Poles scrubbed them did this one slip through??? Or did the Spanish scrub them post war..???

This is a disturbing photo... Thanks for posting

For more info from the author, I can highly recommend the Surplused website. I contributed a couple of short pieces there earlier this year. It's free to join, created as a relatively new side project by Othias of C&rsenal fame.

Once logged in, you can post questions and comments at the ends of articles.

 

[indy1919a4]

For more info from the author, I can highly recommend the Surplused website. I contributed a couple of short pieces there earlier this year. It's free to join, created as a relatively new side project by Othias of C&rsenal fame.

Once logged in, you can post questions and comments at the ends of articles.

So are you saying this is not the Forum to discuss such things??

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

So are you saying this is not the Forum to discuss such things??

Not at all -- please take this as an invitation to Surplused rather than a THR rebuke (which would be none of my business anyway)!

When someone says 'begs the question', the retired librarian in me tries to come up with some helpful resources for finding an answer.

My intention was to admit my own ignorance on the subject of things SCW -- except possibly helmets -- and my belief that the author of the Surplused article might be a good source for additional inquiries. I don't know whether this author also follows THR, but of course that doesn't mean that someone else here knows as much or more on the same subject.

BTW indy, I've been meaning to compliment your choice of avatars -- love the old Mauser sporting rifle graphics!

 

[Ignition Override]

Remember the terrible battle on the small mountain of Monte Cassino Italy? Germans were well dug into the huge medieval monastary complex on top.

This sniper is from New Zealand, if I remember correctly.
The Enfield no. 4/mk.1 in his hands --and his facial expression-- exude resolve. My favorite Enfield photo.