Enfield jungle carbine

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jungle Carbine search

Looking for a high quality Jungle Carbine. Can anyone refer me to a good reliable source or dealer ? I have seen a number of carbines but have not found one worth the price asked. Thanks in advance. I am located in the Hudson Valley area of NY
 
If you don't mind plastic furniture, look around.
You ought to be able to find a Remington 700 or a Mossberg ATR-100 for $300 or so. (and cheaper used)
I'm looking at a friend's semi-auto Remington in .30-06 with a pretty nice scope (Bushnell) for just $350 and it has a nice custom thumb hole stock.

My rifle is a Mossberg, and it shoots fine, but I hate the scope that came with it.
I wouldn't recommend mil-surp over a new-ish lightly used rifle. Just my two cents.
 
lotsa good answers to the original question , yes , a no5 is a fine deer rifle ,

and some good input on "the rifle" , it was made as a no5 not a modified no4 [except in design] and a no4 would be a great deer rifle too ,

MIKESBAYONETS041.gif

no5 rifle is a faz - only FAZ and BSA made them ,

the no4s are FAZ & longbranch - also made by savage , maltby , BSA , and of coarse POF

MIKESBAYONETS040.gif

the no1s and SMLEs -

MIKESBAYONETS045.gif

ill add that neither a no5 nor a no4 is an SMLE - "short, magazine , lee enfeld" , technicality of coarse , but the wrong nomenclature doesnt educate , only the no1s were Smle's , started life as Smle's and got their name changed after the first world war to no1 , before the advent of the no4 or no5 rifles ,

if you wanted a modern version of the 'jungle carbine' you might buy a sante fe 303 conversion of the no4 , or an ausie 762 version - cant recall what they call them but i think its a no10 ? these are not vintage , but fine rifles from what ive read ,
 
You guys can check many well-photographed rifles and other militaria, many of which were imported from Canada at:

"Joesalter.com":) . I just ordered a "Jungle Carbine" yesterday from him.
The originals have the features which were so well described and summarized by Gewehr 98.
Also... Mr. Salter photographs various details on each gun, which most sellers on 'GBroker' either don't consider important, or don't want to expose to a bright light ;)...

Gewehr 98: Ganz gut beschrieben und zusammengefasst.
 
Hey everybody!

I posted this in another thread so I though I might as well post it here too along with a pic of mine:

I happen to have one of the "fake" Jungle Carbines. Mine is marked No.4 Mk.1, picked it up for $275 at a gunshow after some haggling. I like the Enfield for what is it, a very fast-cycling, high-capacity bolt-action design with good, accurate sights, but I never liked how they looked in standard configuration, but the JC has an almost sporterized look, yet they are authentic as they were actually made that way for a certain time. I am also very fond of shorter rifles. I like the Jungle Carbines a lot but I wasn't about to pay 500-600 dollars for a true No.5, and the fake ones may actually be better shooters since the wandering zero is supposedly caused by the lightening cuts on the barrels and receivers that the real No.5 carbines have.

I have shot my pseudo-JC and it shoots straight and consistently, I haven't tested for accuracy but so far I've been able to hit water jugs and such out to 150 yards. The rifle handles and balances very well, and recoil is IMO surprisingly mild (compared to a Mosin-Nagant carbine or an 8mm Kar 98K). I don't understand why so many are complaining about the recoil. The ammo situation is a crapshoot, however. I have some S&B FMJ that I was able to acquire from a private seller, but in general .303 Brit unavailable locally and is expensive online. I also have a box of Radway Green surplus but I don't plan on shooting any of it, as I hear it has all dried up and I got a good deal on it at $8 for a 32-round box. One option I have been considering is rechambering the rifle for 7.62x54R or better yet, 7.62 NATO (to keep it "western"), however there is an issue with bore diameter (.308" vs .311") and making the mags work with the aforementioned cartridges. Another option is reloading, but then Enfield chambers were made oversized to allow the use of dirty/corroded cartridges and as such the brass swells excessivley upon being fired and is not as reloadable as other calibers.

I am by no means a Lee-Enfield expert (far from it, actually) but the above info comes from my own research on the subject, any information/corrections from other members is more than welcome.

Here is a pic of my No.4 Mk.1 "fake" SMLE Jungle Carbine (notice the stock is "incorrect" for the JC):

attachment.php
 
olian lee. allan's armory has one jungle carbine left. he's had this one for a while, and it looks like it could use some help, but the price is right and might even be lowered.
 
Ishapore Enfield 2A and 2A #1 barrel twist rate

Dang it! I posted this in the wrong place and now I can't delete this post! @#$%^&


What is the twist rate of the 308 caliber Enfield? I want to build a mostly-sub-sonic 308 rifle on the cheap and though of the Ishapore, but I need the 1 in 10 fast twist for the heavy & long slugs I have in mind. I suspect it is 1 in 12 since most 7.62 NATO is light ball. Can anyone confirm?
 
Last edited:
I just purchased a jungle carbine, and fitted it with a Leupold VXIII 1.5-5 scope. I got a 2.5 inch three shot group with Remington Cor-lock's. I single fed the ammo and I had just cleaned the barrel. I did not use a fowling shot, so its possible I could do better.

Just curious what kinds of ammo you guys are using. I am not finding very much .303 ammo on the market.
 
Group was 100 yards distance. I thought it sounded very good compared to what I have been reading. Looking back on it... the low power of the scope and the trigger really hold the gun back. No telling how accurate the rifle really is.



Cool thing about the jungle carbine is just how far advanced the design is. Short barrel, short stock, bayonet lug, flash hider, detach magazine, etc.. Heck is a bolt action assault rifle!
 
They made an ideal hunting rifle. Have you tried reloading for it? It'll save you some money if you do a lot of shooting, but the best part is you can neck size your brass for a perfect fit in your chamber. My reloads are quite a bit more accurate than any factory stuff I've tried. Your results may vary.

By the way the mag. was intented to be left in the rifle and removed only for cleaning. I would be hard pressed to find a better bolt gun for hunting.
 
old topic but worth reviving.

The best milsurp to groom into a hunting rifle is a Mauser 98, or Mauser 92-95, period. Add an $80 stock to a WWII K98 and you have as good a hunting rifle as you can buy anywhere, and to get that controlled feed design today, you'd have to spend $1000 for a new FN-made Winchester Model 70. You can buy a sporterized S. American Model 98 for $150-$250 to build from. I bought a 7.65 x 53 Peruvian Mauser that had an aftermarket trigger, side safety, synthetic stock, drilled/tapped/scope mount but no scope, bent down bolt handle, for only $154 out the door, and that included a box of 50 shells ammo. The gun would shoot a 3/4" group at 100 yards, I sold it for $250 easily on GB and the buyer loves it- what more can you ask for ? It was a trade-in at the gun shop.

If you want SMLE, that Jungle Carbine is the way to go. It's practically ready to hunt with as issued, lighter, handier, and short barrel. I have all 3 of the popular SMLE's- No. 1 Mk. III*, No. 4 Mk. I, and No. 5 Mk. I Jungle Carbine. All are 1940's WWII vintage.

The only one I've fired a lot so far, was the No. 4 Mk. I The truth is, all SMLE's suffer from "wandering zero" to some extent, because they are not bedded tightly into the fore end stock, and the stock is a 2-piece design. The buttstock screws into the action receiver with one long bolt, and the action is then clamped into the fore end by the front barrel band and magazine/trigger guard assembly. You can grab an SMLE barrel and move it around quite a bit in the stock- and that's exactly what happens when you shoot it, and the barrel begins to get hot and expand.

All the milsurps suffer from this trait to some extent, and many hunting rifles as well- being production line items, they weren't carefully bedded into the stock with tight tolerances for maximum accuracy.

The SMLE could use a little "accurizing" as issued. I took the No. 4 Mk. I and Acra-glass bedded it into the fore end stock. This is a slightly messy job, as the fiberglas resin runs out of all the small cracks, and must be wiped away after you clamp the barreled action back into the fore end- and the barrel must first be painted with release agent- but it can be done at home on your workbench or kitchen table.

After bedding, the gun became much more accurate and held zero much better. It only wandered slightly, i.e. the group will move up to the left as the barrel gets hot- but acceptable.

This is not unusual for any gun. I have a Browning A-bolt Gold Medallion in 7mm Rem Mag that puts the 3 first shots in one hole at 100 yards, then subsequent shots and groups open up a bit as the barrel gets hot. Perfectly normal- the barrel expands and moves, and has to go somewhere- typically it moves upward. So it even happens with new $600 hunting rifles.

Bed the barrel on an SMLE, then fire form/neck size/reload for that specific rifle, you'll have as accurate a hunting rifle as you'll ever need. For one shot game kills under 100 yards, the SMLE would work as issued- because they won't get hot enough to wander the zero, and you're only firing one shot. If you don't want to accurize it, you'll have to sight it in COLD. Then wait until it cools down again, then continue to sight it in. Because if you keep moving the sights around as it gets hot, it will not shoot there when it cools down again and the barrel contracts. This means fire 3 shots, move the zero, then wait 1/2 hour for it to completely cool down, then fire another group and check it. You want to simulate a cold gun condition that you just walked into the woods with for deer season.

The Mosin Nagant isn't even in the same class as a Mauser or SMLE. I've seen those at gun shows for $125 with 5 boxes of ammo, and a custom stock/scope- with no buyers. They are just crude weapons- but they too can be made accurate. You can accurize anything, it's just a matter of money and time. A Mosin Nagant is about the cheapest milsurp you can buy- to be honest I'd take a Jap Type 99 or Type 38, over a Mosin.

One big advantage of the SMLE, it has a quicker action than a Mauser or Springfield, and has a shorter bolt throw, and a large magazine capacity. R. Lee Emery just did a shootout between Springfield and SMLE on dinner plates, and the Aussie shooting the SMLE beat him easily. They had to break 20 plates in the quickest time from prone position. You can't argue with success.
 
Last edited:
here's 2 of mine- I read a few of the early posts in this thread, calling these rifles "puss" and junk- that is simply not true- they are beautiful rifles in their own right. The fit and finish approaches or even surpasses the German Mauser milsurps- although admittedly the SMLE is a somewhat inferior design from the strength and accuracy standpoint. SMLE's did have a higher rate of fire and shorter bolt throw than a Mauser though- so in actual battle conditions they were the equal of any bolt action of the time.

33jn20z.jpg

oit4y0.jpg
 
that's a Williams scope mount, attached with (3) fine thread machine screws into the left side of the receiver, with flat thumbwheel nuts to hold the scope mount onto the vertical mount portion- it's quite sturdy and better than the newer scope mount I bought for my SMLE No.4 rifle

the eye relief on it is perfect
 
here's a better view of the scope mount from left side- with that scope mount I can still use the basic open rear peep sight as well, it's a "brush mount"- but cannot flip the rear sight up of course

xdgutg.jpg
 
My God, there's some IGNORANT comments on the first couple of pages of this thread! Some really stupid internet commandos here in 2006, I hope they're gone now.

I found this 1947 Fazakerly No. 5 last year in a pawn shop for $150. It's the real deal, not a conversion, and in excellent shape except for the scope addition. Sweet little rifle that shoots great. Of course, that leather belt sling went in the trash and was replaced with a correct one. I've also installed a correct 800yd. rear sight assembly, which was missing.

If I were a hunter, this would be a perfect rifle for it.

DSCN2383.gif
 
The barrels on #4 and #5 Enfields are supposed to "float" under the hand guards. The reason is so that in wet climates, the swelling of the wood would not affect the battle zero of the rifle. This was learned with the ShtLe MkIII, or the #1mkIII in WWI in the trenches of Belgium..
 
The British Army wanted to convert to semi-autos after WW2 and reportedly created or amplified the 'wandering zero' legend, in order to help justify the next generation weapons.

Both of my LE #5s, even using Pakistani surplus, are much more accurate than both of my former MN 44s (bayonets extended, or folded) were at 50 yards, using Bulgarian ammo.

Lee-Enfield #4, #5 and military Mausers. What a group.:)
 
Carbines.gif

Australian Arms International M10-A2 7.62X39
Enfield JC 303
Spanish FR8 308
Swedish Mauser carbine 6.5X55
 
Last edited:
Cool, a resurrected Enfield thread, can I play? Can't have to many Enfields.

Top to bottom

Santa Fe Arms sporter
No5 MkI faz
No4 MkII faz 55 UF
No4 MkI Maltby
No4 MkI Savage-Stevens
No4 MkI faz donor for TR clone project
enfields12-24-09.jpg

No4 MkI faz late war time PF rifle, a buy it now off gunbroker for $150.
jan0903.jpg

No4 MkII Irish Contract in the wrap
unwrap01.jpg
Got the cosmoline off this weekend
stripedirish01.jpg

My pride and joy
No4 MkI (T)
sniper02.jpg
m3201.jpg

Set up for mil-surp comp.
No4PH003.jpg
 
Found this MK4 sporter for $170. Added the scope and it's great for hunting.
Enfield Sporters are actually cheaper finds than the stock military rifles and much less shot.
P1000021.gif
 
I don't think the kick momentum-wise is any worse than a .30-30. The trouble is that the butt-plate had a narrow rubber cushion protruding from it about 3/4". These cushions hardened into ROCKS after 70 years and hit your shoulder like a framing hammer. Firing a few shots is agony. I put a butt pad on mine like the fellow posted above. Anybody that says they shoot their's alot without a buttpad is a better man than me. With the buttpad they are a pleasure to shoot. I love to shoot mine more than my K-31's and Mosin's.
 

Attachments

  • Kick.jpg
    Kick.jpg
    96.5 KB · Views: 14
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top