Ennui anyone?

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oldfart

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I have unabashedly stolen this from Claire Wolfe's Blog. She can smite me if she wishes but I think she's onto something here.

06/02/2007 Entry: "Government permission to work -- why care?"

BECOMING NUMB TO CARING. Earlier this week, two people at TCF posted something about the latest proposed abomination of the coming American police state -- the plan to force all Americans to get Homeland (Achtung!) Security permission before being "allowed" to earn a living.

Welcome to life in a free country, eh?

It's another case of everything old being new again. Activists, including people like Jackie Juntti (The Old Polish Woman -- Hello, Jackie!) uncovered more than 10 years ago the carefully downplayed and well-hidden little plan for this. Back then permission would have to come from the Social Security Administration, since our neo-Nazi overlords were less overtly fascist in their terminology or their bureaucracy. But while the present spew is still merely proposed legislation, that particular gift of the 104th Congress ("We'll get government off your backs!") was the real deal: A pilot program in five states that quietly went into effect. (News of the pilot program's subsequent "progress" has been sketchy and hard to come by.)

The new monstrosity, if imposed, has an extra fillip. The Employment Eligibility Verification System would also require all current employes to get permission to continue working. Not only that, but apparently the bill limits judicial review. The "Achtung!" boys say you're not eligible to work, Pedro (or Ahmad, or Mei-Ling, or John or Mary)? Well, sorry, you're just not eligible.

Oh, can you imagine the chaos? Can you imagine the database -- and its errors? Can you imagine the suffering, the panic, the bureaucracy, the disruption to the workplace? Can you imagine the millions of newcomers welcomed into the underground economy!

But when I read the news, I discovered I just didn't care.

I didn't give one tiny bit of a damn whether this extrusion from the bowels of some morally cancerous creep in DC (whose name I'm not even going to bother to look up) passes or doesn't pass. I felt nada. A mental shrug.

How can this be? Our country is going down the tubes (and being shoved ever-faster in the name of "freedom" or "preserving America's borders" by creatures for whom the term "cretin" is too generous an acolade -- creatures who completely miss the fact that they, themselves, with their totalitarian mentalities are the most unAmerican thing within those precious borders) ... Deep breath, Claire. Deep breath. Our country is going down the tubes faster and faster every day. And I DON'T BLOODY CARE!

Well, I'll bet you know how it can be. I'll bet you feel a bit of it yourself -- the ennui that comes from enduring literally years of unrelenting bad news.

Yes, our country is moving toward becoming a totalitarian state whose only virtue will be that it'll be the most bumbling, ineffective totalitarian state anywhere (thanks to all those database errors and all those investigators chasing after innocent people who happen to have bad "profiles"). But hey, what's one more Stalinist directorate, more or less? What's one more catastrophe, from a Congress that produces the legislative equivalent of a Hurricane Katrina every time its members plant their lard-asses before their voting levers? Or raise their hands. Or say, "Aye." Or stay home and let three leadership manipulators pass the latest bit of Draconia in the middle of the night. Or however it is that they do things, these days?

What, we have to ask, is one more stupid identity law in a country whose politicians' obsession with our identies has reached theater-of-the-absurd point already?

Have you ever seen Waiting for Godot? Most boring play ever written. Five long acts of people doing absolutely nothing. Waiting for somebody who never arrives. That's what it's beginning to feel like living in post-"Get Government Off Your Backs" America. Just keep hangin' in there, waiting for ... the big something, the big whatever, to happen. And instead, things just drone on, getting badder and badder and badder. But somehow never so bad that the mythical workers will rise up and throw off their American equivalent of shackles. Godot never arrives.

So ... numbness.

But this isn't merely a rant about being tired of it all, either. Numbness (and confess, you do feel it too, if you've been a long-time freedom-watcher) isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Getting all jumping-up-and-down, hair-tearing upset about every reeking little chunk of half-digested McFood in the continuous drunken spew government retches out is actually much worse. Not only is "comfortably numb" a well-chosen expression. It's that when we stop screaming about every individual abomination that we can see the big picture ... the pattern ... the principles (if they deserve the name) behind what's being done to us.

Two acquaintances of mine have it right. Aaron Zelman is absolutely correct that the only possible answer -- if indeed we aren't already past the point of no return -- is Bill of Rights education. And L. Neil Smith is correct that Bill of Rights enforcement should be a prime focus eventually and soon. Strike at the root. Understand the why, as in "why government has no authority to do this and why those who try to impose totalitarianism should pay a heavy price," and you get further than if you merely swat at all the "hows."

As Aaron says, we're so busy fighting every little brushfire of legislation that we don't notice the huge military column marching straight down the road at us. We need to challenge government not on these individual little piles of wormy dog doo, but on the most fundamental basis.

Everything else is simply too exhausting. Everything else means that while we swat desperately at one mosquito, DC's flocks of buzzards assemble in ever-larger numbers to pluck out our innards.

I'm not going to support the Ron Paul campaign, because I've simply given up all hope in being political. But I understand why so many see him as our last hope (and fortunately a worthy hope) in politics.

Once Paul is past, we'll have another job to do. Perhaps you could say that ennui provides the rest needed to do it.
 
Some of us see this, and have for a while.
We are usually called nutjobs and ignored.
I will support Dr. Paul. In Hope.
 
I find this as despicable as anyone, but there is one unanswered question: How do we ascertain whether or not somebody is either a citizen or an illegal alien?

Y'see, as long as we're talking about us and our rights as enumerated in the BOR, we keep saying these rights exist in the absence of government. Government does not grant these rights. Okay, that makes them human rights, applying to anybody who's wandering around upright and breathing without regard to where they were born.

So if we're gonna have laws about "illegal entry" and "illegal aliens", it's up to our legal system to prove somebody's a crook. "Innocent until proven guilty" and all that.

Absent a national ID card, how do we do that?

Art
 
Absent a national ID card, how do we do that?
Close the border. Anyone entering needs permission.
Those Citizens that are here already can be identified,they have SSN Birth records, DL, State ID, etc.
If there is no crime committed, there is no reason to ask.
 
She seems to welcome the violent and shady characters that disrespect our nation's sovereignty.

She misses the major problem with the legislation: it will only affect legal workers. Illegals will still work under the table. Only we will get the shaft for "our safety". Only our rights will be eroded, not the privileges of illegal aliens. The sad thing is all that Congress and El Presidente want to do is give people who work hard, respect and love this nation and come here legally a hard time and not the lazy, disrespectful foreign nationalists that send their money home to their beloved banana republic and expect free handouts.
 
So if we're gonna have laws about "illegal entry" and "illegal aliens", it's up to our legal system to prove somebody's a crook. "Innocent until proven guilty" and all that.

Absent a national ID card, how do we do that?

Art
Except you forget that you need to be a legal resident to have a green card, SSN, or State-issued ID/Driver's License. What makes you think that another ID will be any different or that the administration that is so cavalier in protecting illegal aliens(domestic outsourcing) is going to actually use this to do anything about this country being taken over by a banana republic?

I'm all for protecting this country from becoming another banana republic but we need to take off the kid gloves and start to enforce the laws we already have or else we will lose more liberties and with the same problem. Because laws only seem to apply to us.
 
How do we ascertain whether or not somebody is either a citizen or an illegal alien?
...
Absent a national ID card, how do we do that?
Well, first of all - I thought we were all "innocent" until proven guilty...?

So why do I have to prove that I am a citizen?

Isn't there some quaint notion called "probable cause" ?

I don't see that the feral govt has made much serious effort at either:
1) securing our borders
2) deporting illegal aliens already in the country

I haven't seen any evidence that the weak efforts at #2 have been hampered by lack of national ID card - such as a deportation case being dismissed for lack of evidence. If such is the case, then you would think that they would be trotting them out for all to see.

IMO, national ID is just more BS to harass the folks "who didn't do it".

You know the threads about DUI checkpoints? And how some people think they are a good thing just to get one somwhat drunk driver off the road?

The next logical step beyond a national ID is checkpoints to prove citizenship. :uhoh:

I'm as fired up about the illegal immigration issue as anybody, but remember that most problems started out as a "solution" to some previous smaller problem.

Personally, they can give all the illegal aliens amnesty for all I care, as long as they do the same for all gun and drug possession law violations. ;)
 
So if we're gonna have laws about "illegal entry" and "illegal aliens", it's up to our legal system to prove somebody's a crook. "Innocent until proven guilty" and all that.

Absent a national ID card, how do we do that?

"Innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply here, either. Neither with a national ID card, nor with proving to the Department of Homeland Security that you aren't a threat to the fatherland.

The presumption of this legislation is that you do NOT have the right to work in America. You're guilty of being an illegal unless you can prove otherwise -- even if your great-grandparents were American citizens and you've never been out of the country.

Couple that basic presumption with having, by design, no system in place to challenge errors, and what you have is the presumption of guilt, PLUS no way to prove innocence if the bureaucrats get it wrong. That's a recipe for personal economic disaster (and an inevitable, thriving black market for people thrown out of work by this stupidity).

National ID? That's government paperwork, and bureaucrats approvoing or disapproving each employee's access to the workplace. And it's a long way toward the literal definition of fascism: the means of production are technically owned by the private sector, but the government retains control.

You really worried about the illegals destroying our country? I'll tell you how we should (but won't) fix it: put super-tight controls on access to gov't bounty. Require invasive, obnoxious procedures proving citizenship in order to get any government bounty: health care (including emergency rooms, yes... and yeah, that's harsh), welfare, AFDC/food stamps, gov't-supported college grants or loans, etc etc. The whole ball of wax. Any sort of free government handout should be accompanied by obnoxious amounts of privacy-destroying paperwork. Any vague whiff of improper attempts to access the system should trigger an investigation, and the results of all such investigations should be publically available through the FOIA. With the exception of educational programs, require all citizens who get freebies to agree to community service to defray the cost of the freebies, and to sign away their right to vote for the duration of their visit to the public trough.

Completely erase access to freebies by anyone who cannot prove citizenship, and require even those who can prove citizenship to jump through obnoxious numbers of hoops in order to suckle from the public teat. Couple that with strictly-applied lifetime caps on the handouts for everyone, citizen or not.

Meanwhile, kick the gov't out of the private employment market. Let employers hire whomever they wish, let employers set whatever terms of employment they wish (two cents an hour? Fine, if they can find an employee willing to go for it), and let employees work for whomever they wish. Come down hard on employers who don't send in complete taxes for the number of people they actually employ, regardless of the citizenship status of any individual employee. The result will be an increased workforce and more money coming into the public coffers -- at the same time as the number of people dipping into the coffers drops.

There's no point in dumping massive amounts of money into the borders. Historically, tight borders never work (at least not by themselves). Instead of putting up higher fences, choke off the reason freeloaders want to cross the border in the first place. Stop giving away the freebies that bring freeloaders into our country. The hard workers will keep coming (most of them legally), and will be an economic asset to us instead of a drain. The freeloaders will decide it's not worth the effort, and stay home.

And you won't have to trample on anyone's rights in order to do it, either.

pax
 
I to do not support a national ID card, or making every working American prove his citizenship. I think you should have to prove it when applying for a a job, but not once already hired. I then would support a database in which local LE has access to. When an arrest for a violent, or other "harmful" (<-- room for debate) crime is commited, then everyone is checked for citizenship, seeing as probable cause has been established, and if it is found that you are in this country illegally, then there should be a bench trial in which the government would show evidence to prove that you are in fact here illegally. If found to be so, then you would be shipped back to your country of citizenship with the condition that you will be held in federal prison not to exceed 10 years if you are found to have again illegally entered this country.

In order to make room for prisoners, I would like to see many of the "federal offenses" such as trafficking in controled substance less than consumable amounts and felon in possession of firearm taken off the books.
 
Seems like a nice catch-22 and a great way to not fix a problem at the location needed.

People who intentionally subvert and undermine immigration and border management then turn around and want restrictive ID cards for employment.

Manufacture the problem to insure a more totalitarian solution than making a "new berlin wall" ever would have been.

treason twice says I, once for the surrender of soverignty over own own borders, and once more for the "fix" to their manufactured problem. (for the .02 it is worth)
 
I would just add a little relish to pax's points. The most practical way to deal with this problen while maintaining our freedom is to do it at our borders (as ozwyn points out).

We all have human rights. There are also inherent powers of a nation, such as to maintain its borders. If you are within the USA, you have the right to remain here unless the government can prove you don't . Innocent until proven guilty. If you are outside the USA, you do not have the right to enter unless you can prove you are a US citizen (passport) or are invited under terms set by the .gov.

Laws attacking the problem at the employer/employee level unacceptably and unnecessarily infringe on our rights.
 
I agree with Henry Bowman :)

It is not employers' job to enforce federal law.

Border controls might not work 100%, but improving it from 5% (my WAG of the current rate of intercepts) to 80% would be a 1600% improvement.

Either that, or just stop have any border controls at all, so that all these "guest workers" can just safely commute on the highway instead of sneaking across the desert, trashing private property as they cross, or being suffocated in cargo boxes. :rolleyes:

I also agree with Claire Wolfe that I just don't care much anymore - the insane are running the country and every election just makes things worse. My horses and cats are my best friends ;)
 
Countries with stupid restrictions like those we seem to be threatened with quickly develop underground economies. I know of many legal US citizens who already work 'off the books', some for tax reasons, some to hide money from the ex-, and some because of an allergy to BS. Such a law as this would very likely have unintended consequences.
 
But without a national I.D. card how can we unify all the databases?
A national I.D. will allow the government to easily and efficiently keep track of all important data like:
Income
Taxes
Driving Record
Credit Record
FFL Purchases
NFA Purchases
Ammunition Purchases (interstate)
Any and all Controlled substance purchases (Cigarettes, alchohol, etc.)
Medical and Psychiatric records
Voting records
Pharmacy purchases
grocery purchases
criminal and arrest record

Need I go on?
If you think I'm a tin hatter, think again. Most of these databases already exist. A nation I.D. just allows them to be integrated under a single clearing house available to anyone with sufficient clearance. Like the policeman that you had an argument with and is now looking to get something on you (this happened recently in Harvey, Illinois).

Thanks
Jefferson
 
I feel many of us may be missing the basic premise here as it regards "legal" and "illegal" workers.

I have read the constitution, the declaration of independance and the first ten amendments to the constitution known as the "Bill of Rights" and NOWHERE therin is there any guarantee of any right or privelidge (sic) to Non Citizens of this country.

The damn Mexicans, Columbians, Equadorians, whateverians DO NOT HAVE ANY DARN RIGHTS under our law and should be bounced on their asses back where they came. WHAT?? That's not "high road"? Too bad, that is how it is and how it should be.

We need "agricultural workers"? Fine. Set up a green card system to allow them in, monitor them and see that they get the hell out after the work is done. Don't charge them for social security or medicare and don't give them any either. Those that want to become citizens, god bless them, let them apply, go to school, learn English, US History, Civics and common decency and then let them take an oath of citizenship and pledge aliegence to this great country.
 
The damn Mexicans, Columbians, Equadorians, whateverians DO NOT HAVE ANY DARN RIGHTS under our law and should be bounced on their asses back where they came. WHAT?? That's not "high road"? Too bad, that is how it is and how it should be.

That's all well and good once you determine that the person in question is indeed an alien and does not have the legal right to be in the US. What about Mexican/Spanish folks whose families have been in the US since we annexed Texas, NM, AZ, & CA and who are proud US citizens ...??? You going to kick them all out and then make them prove that they are a citizen to bet back in? :rolleyes:
 
Hey, I agree with pax. However, I really don't believe we're gonna toughen up eligibility for benefits. We're not gonna reduce benefits. We're not gonna relieve employers of penalties for hiring illegals. I just don't see it happening in the U.S. as it is. Doesn't matter what I want, you want, yo mamma wants. It's the politics of "the way it is".

And we're not gonna successfully close the border, at least not totally.

I dunno. I just see it as a mix of Danegeld politics, perpetrated by a bunch of folks with Chamberlain-itis. (Neville Chamberlain; 1939, for those who need to go to Wikipedia. :) )

Anyhow, that's why I asked the question in the way that I did. All the comments to it were seen by Congress as irrelevant in 1986; they've all been said before...

Art
 
Stop giving away the freebies that bring freeloaders into our country. The hard workers will keep coming (most of them legally), and will be an economic asset to us instead of a drain. The freeloaders will decide it's not worth the effort, and stay home.

Pax got it right again. Imagine that.

Well, almost right:

Completely erase access to freebies by anyone [strike]who cannot prove citizenship[/strike]
There ya go.
 
DocZinn ~

That would be Step Two.

Equally implausible as Step One, but further in the future. ;)

pax
 
The general arguments here seem to be based on the assumption that social security, medicare, and federal personal income taxes are all legal, justified, and that our federal government has been granted the power to levy such taxes.

If these taxes were removed, would there be an argument that we (citizens of States within the United States) need to provide an identification number (currently the SSN) in order to legally gain employment?

I say no. I think it is wrong for us to have to provide such an identification for permission to be "legally" employed.

And to extend that one step further, if we didn't have to provide our serial number, then neither would "non-citizens." There would be no "national I.D." issue.

As mentioned above, many "problems" are created by the "solutions" to prior "problems."

(Even if the personal serial number was not required for the above tax purposes, businesses are so regulated and also like to feed from the trough and the gov would still require such a serial number in order for the businesses to prove that they have X number of employees, or X number of minorities, etc. This gov control is also wrong, IMO.)
 
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