Euroarms 1803 Harpers Ferry rifle

[AlexanderA]

I don't understand these Italian gunmakers.

The Euroarms Model 1803 Harpers Ferry rifle is marked on the lockplate with the year "1803." Yet Harpers Ferry Armory didn't start producing these until 1804, and there are no known originals with the date "1803." What's worse, the Euroarms reproduction represents the Type II of this model (because it has a 36" barrel rather than the 33" of the Type I), and the Type II wasn't made until the period 1814-19.

My Pedersoli Model 1816 musket is marked "Harper's Ferry" and has the date "1816" on the lockplate and the barrel. Harpers Ferry Armory didn't start making this model until 1819.

Are the Italian gunmakers really that sloppy, or are they doing this knowingly in an effort to prevent faking? It's really frustrating to those of us to whom authenticity is important.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Research is weak or if they had a sample, it could have had its lock replaced.

My gripe is the Italian Enfields and Whitworths. The Enfields for the most part have post-Civil War hardware and the Whitworths are the longer barrel ones, not the 33" snub nose ones imported by the Confederacy.

 

[Jim Watson]

Maybe they are trying to prevent faking by inauthentic features.
There are enough "defarbed" repros to show it would only take a little more work to generate a fake if the starting place differed only in markings.

I saw an attempt at a gun show once. Represented as a period cartridge conversion revolver, but I recognized the modern adapter ring.

 

[Panzerschwein]

99% of weekend reenactors and shooters don't care or don't know just how inauthentic most replica black powder weapons are.

 

[AlexanderA]

My most authentic "reproduction" is not Italian at all. It's a Model 1842 musket that's a hybrid of original and reproduction parts, that I assembled myself. The lock is original (marked "Harpers Ferry 1844"), as is the trigger guard and buttplate. The stock, barrel, ramrod, and bands are newly made. The main giveaway that the gun is not original is that there is some figure in the wood, whereas back in the day the Armory insisted on using straight-grain walnut.

There are American shops making excellent stocks and barrels for antique muskets (Dunlap Woodcrafts and Whitacre's Machine Shop, respectively).

 

[Panzerschwein]

Truly, few care.

And also, it's to protect from counterfeiting.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

Nobody cares so that closes the subject.

 

[Curator]

Steelhorserider,

Having worked closely with many reenactor units, I would respectfully disagree that "no one cares." There are reenactors who are very concerned abut the authenticity of their "impression." Two years ago, I lent my original M1863 Springfield musket to a newby reenactor who was going to participate in the Olustee battle here in Florida, He was told to get a different rifle or go home when the arms inspection revealed the date on the lock plate was 1865. He came home somewhat disillusioned, complaining about "danged thread counters." Apparently some of his coat buttons weren't correct as well.

While this may seem absurd to ordinary folks, authenticity is often taken very seriously with the real "hardcore" units. For a good understanding of this mindset, read "Confederates in the Attic" by Tony Horwitz.

 

[Jim Watson]

You bet.
A reenactor here has an assortment of guns and gear so he can be authentic to the date of the battle or encampment he is portraying.

 

[AlexanderA]

Yes, things like lockplate markings, etc., are very important to some hardcore reenactors. They pay good money to have their guns "defarbed," which includes removing the Italian markings and restamping more authentic markings. For example, one small detail -- replacing the cast-on front sight on an Armi Sport Model 1842 musket with the proper brass sight -- typically costs about $70. There are several gunsmiths that specialize in this work.

You would think the Italian gunmakers wold wake up to this and offer "defarbed" models direct from the factory (at a higher price). Details like this don't matter to shooters, but they matter a lot to reenactors and collectors.

Speaking of the reenactor mentality, typically reenactors go through a progression. The newbies, or "farbs," start out as "powder burners." They just want to get out on the field and have fun, blasting away with blanks. Then, as they stay in the hobby longer, they tend to get more serious, becoming "hardcores" or "authentics." There are some guys who will march 30 miles on foot to a battle, just to see what it felt like, and they will eat nothing but authentic food for the entire weekend. After a few years of this, they typically reach the "burnout" stage and hang it up altogether. But they usually keep the guns and other equipment they've accumulated in the process.