Ever had an MG runaway?

[Capybara]

Hi all:

I was recently in Texas, shooting with an FFL07/SOT02 and had a chance to shoot a full auto converted SIG MPX. I went to take a few shots in semi, just to feel that it was like to shoulder and where it's POA was. All was well. The owner then told me to switch the selector into the auto position. As I did, of course my finger was off the trigger and the gun was safely pointed down range. The second I moved the selector, the gun went off and did a full mag dump. Needless to say, this was a bit unexpected. I think the owner thought I was being a nimrod and had my finger on the trigger but I didn't and showed him that my index finger was safely displayed above the trigger guard.

He then took the gun and after breaking the action open and examining the trigger/hammer, he loaded a magazine. Holding the gun safely downrange, he proceeded to switch from semi to full auto with the same results, full mag dump with no finger on the trigger. He, of course, retired the MPX from shooting that day. Luckily we had plenty of other fun guns to shoot so all was well. I am an NRA RSO and a safe shooter so nobody was hurt, no bullets went anywhere but safely down range but I shudder to think what could have been if one of the other less experienced shooters in the group had been holding the gun and had not had it pointed in a safe direction or had been startled and dropped it. It was weird, when the gun did the mag dump, I wasn't scared or even startled, more like just mildly amused, thinking, "Wow, why did this gun just shoot 28 rounds in a row and I wasn't touching the trigger?". I wasn't till a bit later that it dawned on me, "Wow, that was really dangerous!"

That evening, the owner sent me a cell phone picture of a part that had broken off something in the LPK and lodged itself at the bottom of the FCG pocket, overriding the auto sear. He placed a new replacement part into the FCG and since then, the MPX has ran well. I have had an SKS I was handed at a range slam fire once (obviously cosmoline in the firing pin) and of course, I was safe with that as well but this was the first time I ever had a machine gun runaway fire. It's rare but it can happen. Always be vigilant about firearms safety, I'm glad I am pretty fanatic about it. Machine guns are too much fun but having one runaway will wake you up.

 

[Devonai]

My Guard unit still had M-60s for a couple of years after I joined. To say that they were "sloppy" was an understatement. Runaways were not uncommon at the range; we just let them eat the belt. The M-240B was an improvement, unless you were the poor sucker carrying it.

 

[dogrunner]

Had it happen with an MP40 many years back.....my fault, failed to secure the takedown latch completely after separating the halves.....I realized what was happening and just held it down and together till the mag ran dry.........


Damn sure get your attention!!!!

 

[CLP]

The M-240B was an improvement, unless you were the poor sucker carrying it.

what's this carrying a 240 business? you just mount them atop the loader's hatch or next to the main gun as a coax...heh, ground pounders always amused me.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Open bolt guns don't need much an excuse to run away. The sears are far back (needed for enough momentum) and even weak ammo can cause operation short of the sear.

I'm really surprised this happened on a closed bolt gun like the MPX.

Mike

 

[entropy]

Had 60's run on; just twisted the belt to stop 'em.

 

[MaterDei]

What entropy said.

Has happened to me many times, twisting or breaking the belt and letting it run dry is a pretty easy fix.

 

[yugorpk]

My ar57 ran away. When I first put the top end on it I used a heavy 9mm spring. I also had one of those screw adjusters the preload the trigger . Had that lower with the screw set for short trigger travel for years. Pulled the trigger and it dumped about 25 rounds before I was able to get to the cocking handle and stop the bolt. I don't think the trigger adjustment was doing it. I think that really heavy spring was just slamming the bolt home so hard it was slam firing and the firing pin was hitting hard enough to let it rip.

 

[Devonai]

what's this carrying a 240 business? you just mount them atop the loader's hatch or next to the main gun as a coax...heh, ground pounders always amused me.

What was amusing was switching from the A2 to the M4, then slapping so many attachments onto it that it was heavier than the former. I kept my M4 trim for quite a while before the 1SG finally noticed. I worked in the vault so I kept my ACOG, PEQ-2A, and forward hand grip in there. Amazingly I didn't get in trouble, but I had to put them all back on. I'm surprised he didn't make me a gunner after that.

 

[grahluk]

Had an early pre ban open bolt model Cobray M11 years ago. It was semi but pretty worn. It would occasionally slip off a two or three round burst which got more common the more it was shot. It was amusing to me and friends at first as we were plinking but realized it was dangerous as those mini bursts were unpredictable. During cleaning later I was playing around with it trying to figure why those bursts happened (unloaded of course). I can't remember the parts list and was pretty young and ignorant of it's operation when I had it. Think it was a worn part of the hammer that wouldn't catch after the bolt went to the rear and would let the bolt fly forward again. You could play & wiggle the trigger as it was held then manually pull the bolt back and I could feel it catch metal then slip past. Not cool. Piece of cheap crap.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

Had 60's run on; just twisted the belt to stop 'em.

That about sums up the 60!

Open bolt guns don't need much an excuse to run away. The sears are far back (needed for enough momentum) and even weak ammo can cause operation short of the sear.

I'm really surprised this happened on a closed bolt gun like the MPX.

And that about sums up open bolt guns!

 

[Zendude]

I seem to remember that an M85 50 cal on one of the M60A3 tanks in our unit got hot and had a runaway incident at the firing range.

 

[Gtscotty]

I've had a loose MP40 not stop when I released the trigger a few times... A burst turns into a mag pretty quick.

 

[WestKentucky]

Definately not an mg...glock 17. Firing pin broke and jammed creating a slam fire situation.

 

[Jim K]

Runaways used to happen fairly often with STEN's using that white box WCC lend-lease stuff that was brought back from England by the ton. It didn't have enough power to blow the bolt back far enough to catch the sear, so letting up on the trigger didn't stop the gun.

That was why the Brits hand stamped those boxes "NOT FOR STEN". Naturally, some folks totally misunderstood and claimed that our super powerful ammunition was too hot for the namby-pamby British guns, when it was actually the other way around.

Jim

 

[gyvel]

I keep mine tied up.

I have 3 open bolt subs, and have yet to have the problem, but I could see it happening with weak 9mm that didn't push the bolt back far enough to engage the sear when you let go of the trigger. I could also see it happening in the event of a catastrophic failure involving a broken fire control component.

I can't speak for larger belt fed weapons since my only experience was long ago with an MG 42, which is pretty much a runaway with or without holding the trigger.

 

[Zendude]

I can't speak for larger belt fed weapons since my only experience was long ago with an MG 42, which is pretty much a runaway with or without holding the trigger.

An MG 42? Now that's a real barrel melting machine gun.

 

[plodder]

Not really a runaway, but my local range does not allow full auto shooting. After installing a red dot sight on my M11 with Max31 carbine upper I wanted to dial in the sight before taking to a range that allows full auto, but is a bit of a drive away.

Low & behold, I discovered that there is a selector switch on my M11 that says "semi". So I thinks to myself that I will just flip it to "semi" and take it to the local range to get the red dot on paper. So I stuck about 20 rounds in the drum magazine and set up on a bench at the rifle range. It wasn't a particularly busy day, but there were 4 or 5 guys banging away with bolt rifles.

Of course, my first shot with the switch set to "semi" resulted in a 3 round burst. I acted as if nothing happened even though I could hear the range go silent and I could feel the stares of all eyes present. I thought it was just a glitch, so I adjusted the red dot and tried another round. This shot resulted in a 4-5 round burst. I detached the magazine, checked for a clear chamber, loaded up my range bag & beat it out of there with everyone staring at me.

Lesson learned: that "selector switch" on a M11 is merely ornamental.

 

[dbmjr1]

I recently purchased a second hand 1911 in 9mm with an aftermarket trigger in it.

Doubles and Triples, but no mag dumps.

I think it was actually 'bump firing' itself.

Contacted the seller and he sent me the OEM trigger.

No more problems.

Had a Pig, (M-60), run away on me. We let it run until the barrel sagged. Fun times.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Not really a runaway, but my local range does not allow full auto shooting. After installing a red dot sight on my M11 with Max31 carbine upper I wanted to dial in the sight before taking to a range that allows full auto, but is a bit of a drive away.

Low & behold, I discovered that there is a selector switch on my M11 that says "semi". So I thinks to myself that I will just flip it to "semi" and take it to the local range to get the red dot on paper. So I stuck about 20 rounds in the drum magazine and set up on a bench at the rifle range. It wasn't a particularly busy day, but there were 4 or 5 guys banging away with bolt rifles.

Of course, my first shot with the switch set to "semi" resulted in a 3 round burst. I acted as if nothing happened even though I could hear the range go silent and I could feel the stares of all eyes present. I thought it was just a glitch, so I adjusted the red dot and tried another round. This shot resulted in a 4-5 round burst. I detached the magazine, checked for a clear chamber, loaded up my range bag & beat it out of there with everyone staring at me.

Lesson learned: that "selector switch" on a M11 is merely ornamental.

Something is worn or broken. It should not do this.

Mike

 

[Coop45]

Not an MG, but I had an Austin Healy roll down the drive way.

 

[Jim K]

I strongly recommend that Plodder have that gun repaired. BATFE understands that wear or breakage can accidentally cause automatic fire in some semi-auto firearms. But if the owner continues enjoying the fun, they will consider that the "accident" might be deliberate and award the owner with a nice new set of jewelry and a designer suit.

Jim

 

[pjeski]

I read plodder's post to mean he has a transferable auto MAC, and was simply trying to fire it semi because of range rules. Still needs to get it repaired, though. (Unless it's a CT gun )

 

[plodder]

I strongly recommend that Plodder have that gun repaired. BATFE understands that wear or breakage can accidentally cause automatic fire in some semi-auto firearms. But if the owner continues enjoying the fun, they will consider that the "accident" might be deliberate and award the owner with a nice new set of jewelry and a designer suit.

Jim

It is a transferable fully automatic M11 with appropriate paperwork and stamp. Hence, my feeble attempt at humor about noticing that it has a selector switch. The failure of the selector switch to achieve "semi-auto" is probably because I generally shoot lightly loaded rounds and the bolt was not cycling rearward far enough to engage. It is beyond me why anyone would want such a cheap, ugly piece of junk like a MAC unless it were fully automatic, but I guess they made some semi-auto versions and somebody bought them

 

[giggitygiggity]

I saw an M16A4 run away and dump the magazine by accident. Kind of surprised the shooter and everyone nearby.