Every Iraqi has an AK47

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jnormanh

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So do most Yemanis, Somalis, etc. Are they safe? Virtually no Japanese, Dane or Swizz carries. Who's safer? Get the point?.....Naw, guess not.
 
The point?

The mere presence of guns dont necessarily cause or prevent violence.. it's more of combination of social factors that lead to crime, violence, civil unrest, etc.
 
I highly doubt every Iraqi owns a AK of any version. Yes, they are very plentiful in the country, but that has little to do with the country's problems. Care to post any figures? I guess not.
 
comparing 1st world countrys to 3rd world hell holes?

and if we want to play your game of broad generalizations

Iraq, Yemen, Somalia = Muslim countrys
Japan, Denmark, Switzerland = Non muslim countrys

oops, your poorly thought out logic has backfired!
 
The point is that the environments aren't at all comparable.
Japan, Denmark, and Switzerland have had settled societies for a long time. Each is also very homogenous (Switzerland is within each valley). Each also has a strong economy.
In Switzerland the other reason they don't have AK-47s is because those in the militia have far better firearms in their homes.
Yemen and Somalia have had no effective central government for some time. It isn't concealed carry that makes them unsafe, because the strongmen, warlords, and bandits who run their little area will have guns regardless. There is no effective law enforcement in those 'countries'. Being unarmed would make the average citizen more likely to be prey for others, not safe against bandits. "Man is wolf to man".

Or the point might be that jnormanh puts forth purposely flawed comparrisons that depend on the reader to be uninformed to push his/her point. A long way to say liar.
Or jnormanh doesn't know the most basic facts about conditions on the ground.
 
Iraq and Somalia are war zones. I'd say that in said war zones those Iraqis and Somalis that posses AK47s are indeed safer than those who do not.


Now are you going to try to tell us that the wars in Iraq and Somalia are caused by the presence of AK47s?



Lets take your premise and bring it a little closer to home. In Alexandria VA there are more privately owned firearms in "civilian" possession than across the river in Washington DC. (and the serfs in Alexandria are allowed to get permission slips from Papa Government to carry *gasp* concealed handguns!)

Guess which city is safer?


And Yemen? According to Wikipedia (yeah, I know, not the best source) Yemen has the lowest crime rate on the planet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_rate so I'd say if there are any AK toting Yemenis they are probably pretty safe.
 
jnormanh said:
Every Iraqi has an AK47. So do most Yemanis, Somalis, etc. Are they safe? Virtually no Japanese, Dane or Swizz carries.
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Objection. Calls for speculation.

Sustained, the jury will disregard.
 
I don't think a society in which everyone has guns is necessarily safer, although that will probably be the case if there aren't other factors leading to violence (such as mutually hostile religious sects living side by side). Guns alone certainly do not cause violence, as the example of Switzerland proves.

What combat weapons do guarantee is that the ones who own them and are willing to fight to the death with them cannot be enslaved readily, if at all.
 
The only reason the Iraqis have AK-47's is simply because we don't have enough military force to take them all away. We've got bigger problems. Iraq is in total disarray and we have virtually no control.


Folks, our government HATES the fact that you own weapons. Just look at the constitutions we "helped" write (more like imposed on) other nations. No Second Amendment to be found. If there is any right, it is automatically negated by phrases like "but to be regulated by law"...



If you want to know how our government feels about people, look at how they treat others around the world. They just don't have the magic solution to disarm us here without violence. So they're using the slow approach of using media, public schools and gun-control laws little by little.


Iraqi constitution:

Article 17.

It shall not be permitted to possess, bear, buy, or sell arms except on licensure issued in accordance with the law.
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Hmm...so much for a "Right"..
 
I don't think a society in which everyone has guns is necessarily safer...
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The trap is thinking collectively.

We are not insects, we are humans and as such we are individuals. Even if one accepts the argument that the availability of weapons makes the collective less safe, its hard to argue that possessing arms make the individual less safe (although the antis still try to convince people of that with BS like the Kellerman Study).


Now if your goal is to increase collectivism then disarming the masses for their collective safety makes some sense. However when you disarm the masses you make each individual that makes up those masses less safe (from both their fellow citizens and potential tyranny).
 
Troll feeding time!
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Exactly.....why are you people wasting time with this mental midget? We get it jnormanh, you're so sophisiticated that this "gun stuff" is beneath you, and that calling 911 with a wet spot on the front of your pants and your tail between your legs while your female family members stand around knowing they cant depend on you is your preferred method of dealing with disaster. Now go back to whereever it is you crawled from and leave the adults alone.
 
Exactly.....why are you people wasting time with this mental midget?
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Because this is The High Road.


Welome to the freakin' internet, trolls are part of the scenery.

We can either ignore them, whine about them, or use their presence here as an opportunity to hone our arguments for when we run into these schmucks in the real world.
 
Invalid (and trollish argument).

Switzerland and Japan do not have rampaging hordes of wild-eyed crazed muslim fanatics who will decapitate and/or burn you even for being the wrong brand of muslim.

Iraq does. An AK-47 in a good person's household ensures that the death squads have a harder target, and might pick an easier one instead.

BTW, EVERY ABLE BODIED MALE in Switzerland has an SMG at home in case of callup, likely more capable than an AK.

Game over, thanks for playing.
 
and if we want to play your game of broad generalizations

Iraq, Yemen, Somalia = Muslim countrys
Japan, Denmark, Switzerland = Non muslim countrys
Click to expand...
game over.
 
The trap is thinking collectively.

We are not insects, we are humans and as such we are individuals. Even if one accepts the argument that the availability of weapons makes the collective less safe, its hard to argue that possessing arms make the individual less safe (although the antis still try to convince people of that with BS like the Kellerman Study).

Now if your goal is to increase collectivism then disarming the masses for their collective safety makes some sense. However when you disarm the masses you make each individual that makes up those masses less safe (from both their fellow citizens and potential tyranny).
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I agree with that completely, particularly the part about safety from potential tyranny.

To clarify my earlier post, I believe that citizen disarmament is unjustified even if it would make each citizen safer from common crime. The risk of tyranny is just too great, and unarmed people are enslaved almost by definition.

Oh, and for the record, I am very much an individualist. ;)
 
Don't Tread On Me said:
Folks, our government HATES the fact that you own weapons. Just look at the constitutions we "helped" write (more like imposed on) other nations. No Second Amendment to be found. If there is any right, it is automatically negated by phrases like "but to be regulated by law"...
Click to expand...
Amen. Beating a nation into a "democracy" certainly doesn't equate to making it free. Freedom and democracy have nothing to do with each other whatsoever.
 
It's funny that you bring up Yemen, because Nationmaster (which uses statistics from a 1998 UN study) says that they have a lower murder-rate than the United States.
 
Guns in and of themselves are hunks of wood and metal. The magic, the collective imagination, is what makes a society violent or peaceful, safe or unsafe. Piling extra guns into a bad place makes it worse. Piling them into a good place doesn't change it much.
 
I went back and looked through other post by jnormanh. He seems to be against self defence. He also seems to take the anti stance on the Second Ammendment which would be that it applies to militia/national guard only, the Government is free to regulate private citizens at will, etc :rolleyes: ). Hes not quite a full fledged troll as he has made some post that were helpful to the OPs question in other threads, but hes not really a pro gunner either. No you sir seem to be a classic example of the sportsmen for Kerry type from what I gather :barf: . Feel free to post in the hunting catagory all you want, but please refrain from posting inflamatory troll like dribble anywhere else.
 
Billy Goats Gruff

The OP certainly made me squint.

There is so much wrong with the premise and content of that post that any attempt to respond directly will blow a fuse.

Similarities are not similar, identities are not identical, omitted context,

There's just too much broken.

This guy's not trying to be understood, he's stirring mud.
 
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