Expander getting pulled out of die, stuck in brass

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JamieC

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Decided to process some of my 223 brass, just de-prime and size. Lee turret press Privi Partizan brass. Lee lube, mixed 8:1 w/alcohol. Sprayed a handful of brass, got to work, got the expander stuck 3 of the first 10 or so pieces I attempted. I'm sort of new to rifle reloading, a couple hundred 223 rounds reloaded, haven't had this problem. I had washed the brass a few hours earlier, sprayed it with some degreaser, rinsed with water, tossed inside a towel a few times over an hour or so, left sitting in the sun. After I got the expander, (for the third time), I re-sprayed the brass with lube making sure some spray got inside the neck, seemed to get better, (didn't pull the expanded out any more). Any tips to avoid this? Did I do something wrong?
 
Sounds like ur using not lee dies. Once you get the decapping pin tight make it tighter then a lil more. Yep that should do it.
 
Honestly it sounds to me like you might be overdoing it a little with the cleaning. Washing AND degreasing? I am wondering if you are leaving those necks so sterile that the normally tiny amount of required lube isn't enough.
Actually, the washing and degreasing are the same thing, spray degreaser on the brass, mix it around a bit add some water till they are covered, let 'em sit. I'm wondering if I didn't let them soak enough. It was about 10 min, rinse and get 'em dry, don't know if maybe whatever was inside just got loosened up a little, enough to foul the expander on the way out? There was a little schmutz around the expander when I got it out, IDK. I'm soaking another batch, I'll let 'em soak awhile, see how that goes.
 
I suspect there is not enough lube inside the neck. Lee lube doesn't need to 'soak', maybe just a minute or 2 is all that's necessary for the alcohol to evaporate, IF you're using 90% or greater alcohol. Don't use 70% rubbing alcohol, too much water in it, which will be detrimental to dies and lubrication values. Make certain you've shaken the lube/alcohol mix thoroughly. Then shake some more. Be certain the expander clamp is tight.

I've never had a stuck case with Lee lube, and never a stuck an expander with my Lee dies.
 
The force of expanding depends largely on how tight your FLR die sizes down the necks. Sometimes, the neck of the sizing die is just too tight. Washing with detergent certainly ups the ante, as well. But proper neck lube can overcome the brass prep part of the equation. If your sizing die is too tight, you have some other options, besides sending the die back to the manufacturer.

If you ever try a Lyman M die, you will see a big difference. I have a very tight hornady sizing die. I have ruined brass with it, despite plenty of neck lube. Pulling the expander ball thru was a workout; I felt like I was destroying my press. The expander ball mic'ed right, and my neck tension was perfect. It was the sizing die that was causing a problem. Even after opening up the neck with sandpaper, it's still tight. Tried an M die, and now I expand the same cases with no neck lube. There's no stretching or pulling on the case necks. No effort, at all.
 
I use Hornsby dies and they are tight but I lube inside the neck every second or third case when doing 223 cases, but every case in 30-06.
 
When I tighten the collet on a Lee decapping stem the threads are lightly coated with anti-seize. The stem is dry.

They stay where I put them.
 
FYI for the OP and other new reloaders:

The Lee decapping/expanding stem is designed to lock by friction, only, because sometimes primers get welded into the pocket by oxidation or crimp. Or sometimes we accidentally size cases that have berdan pockets. Or a rock in the flash hole.

The Lee decapping pin will slip by design if you do something really dumb with it. I have never broken a Lee dacapping pin nor bent a Lee decapping stem.

If the sizing die neck is too tight, you will have a heck of a time with the Lee setup. But you have a problem with the die or brass that should be fixed. The force of expanding should never be that high. You are stretching and overworking the brass (and your arm), if that's the case.

As far as decapping, sometimes my 223 stem moves when decapping crimped ammo, like the one tightest pocket out of 10-20. Rather than compromise the intended purpose by gluing it in, I just keep a hammer by the press when sizing crimped ammo. When the decapper stem pops up, I tap it with the hammer until the primer pops out.

Compared to the skinny stem on my Hornady die, there's no contest. I'd rather the Lee system. I actually bent my Hornady stem and broke the decapping pin on my first case. I still don't know how. It was boxer primed, but somehow the pin hit offcenter. I've stuck a case twice in my Lee die, and both times I beat the case out with the decapper stem, and it's still dead straight. Lee might have interesting cost-saving features in some respects, but the decapping pin setup is nothing but good, IMO.
 
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In almost every case of dies sticking in brass cases it's improper or inadequate lubing. It's not the dies, it's not the prep and you don't need to buy more expensive dies, fix the lube problem. You said when you added more lube to the inside of the neck it's was somewhat better. I suggest not diluting the lube as much or changing your lube all together. I use after sticking a case or two when I first started reloading rifle cases with various other lubes I changed over to Imperial sizing Wax and never had another problem. I'm sure your lube will also work if you dilute it less.
 
I got two cases stuck, had to beat them out hitting the pin, seemed fine afterwards. No problems driving out primers, just trying to pull the expander out. Didn't have any problems the first 200 or so cases I did, this batch, at least the beginning, caused all sorts of grief, don't know why. Once I got the last case out, cleaned every thing, made sure I had some lube sprayed into the case necks, everything seemed fine. I've got another batch all clean, I'll have at them next weekend, see what happens.
 
It sounds like it was the cleaning. You need to use neck lube after a good water and detergent cleaning or wet tumbling. I bought some wet tumbled pistol brass, and even this pistol brass stuck to my expanding die and caused galling. In two different calibers. A pull thru rifle expander may have to work much harder than a pistol expander.

Sidenote: when you put tension on a tube of brass, it gets just a tiny bit longer... and a tiny bit thinner, too. So when the expander starts to stick in the neck, the harder you pull, the tighter it gets! This is why you often need neck lube to expand rifle cases, but not pistol cases. At this point, lube may or may not adequately fix the problem. Even if your dies are in spec, the case necks may be exceptionally thick.

In almost every case of dies sticking in brass cases it's improper or inadequate lubing. It's not the dies, it's not the prep and you don't need to buy more expensive dies, fix the lube problem.
My Hornady 7mm die must be exceptional. I'm a pretty strong guy, and I would not make it through 100 neck lubed cases with this die and stock expander.

you don't need to buy more expensive dies
Personally, I rather buy a $30.00 die than to neck lube every case and then either wash each case or suffer powder sticking and clogging the necks along with reduced neck tension/friction. If you have not had expanding problems, you obviously would not consider buying an alternative solution. When you do run into problems, remember the M die. Once you've used it, you might buy one for other calibers, even. No neck lube, less effort, no inside chamfer, more consistent neck tension even on untrimmed brass, better concentricity (if you are having problems), zero bullet scraping, being able to decap primers from problem brass without redundantly resizing/expanding or changing out the expander ball. Just a few of the side benefits. :) You don't need a lot of things in reloading. You could get by with a Lee Loader and a hammer.

As many steps you need to mind in rifle reloading, it baffles me that all major die manufacturers think that combining sizing and expanding is a good tradeoff for the additional work it creates and potential problems it may cause.

Sidenote: I have also had problem seating cast rifle bullets concentrically, and I had some improvement with a competition seater die. But once I got the M die, the comp seater is now completely useless.
 
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I drag my thumb across the neck of every forth or fifth case using Imperial sizing Wax and that works well for me. Since Imperial doesn't effect the powder doing that is no big deal.
 
I agree that it is likely insufficient internal neck lube. I lube with Imperial Dry (graphite) Neck Lube. It is more time consuming so I only use it on my accuracy rifle reloads. But since switching to the dry lube, the necks move back and forth over the expander with zero effort. And this is also with a Lee expander pin. You may also want to tighten the expander pin in the die just a bit.
 
For 223 I would change your dilution ratio. I use LEE lube and mix it with alcohol also.I rather use more lube than stick a case! It's water soluble I do not even wipe it off when done. You will see some white residue.

Heck it is so cheap and goes a long way try 50:50 Shake it really well as it will separate

Lay the brass in a plastic container. Spray a few times shake the brass all around Can even spray it again. You can use it wet or let it dry. I put it in the Sun . Dries in a few minutes..
 
I had the same problem with Hornady rifle dies in 222. Uses a three finger collet nut to grasp the expander pin. No matter how tight I got that nut or how much I lubed the neck it would leave the expander in the case.
 
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