Experiment - Primer Only

[RPCVYemen]

When I separated my brass by headstamp after a range trip, I had one Winchester in with the Starline (all 45 LC).

I put the Winchester in the box of already loaded Winchesters and forgot about it. After reloading some other brass, and putting my powder away, I looked in the Winchester box, and realized that I had one empty round. For the heck of it, I decapped and primed it.

At the range, I fired it to see what a primer only load felt like. I was safe - I treated it exactly as a live round.

I was surprised by the results - I shoot a Blackhawk, and I could barely turn the cylinder to get it out. When I go the round out, the primer looked "polished" - it had been scraping against the frame.

When I thought about it, it made sense. When the primer ignites, it tried to push itself backwards, out of the primer hole. Normally, a very short time later, the hot gasses pushing the bullet forward also push the shell back - "re-seating" the primer. Since there was no bullet or gunpowder in the round I shot, the shell was not pushed back, so the empty primer was not "re-seated".

Somewhat interesting.

Mike

 

[The Bushmaster]

Ya live and learn. Don't ya?

 

[Remo-99]

Your after thoughts are quite correct. That's the very reason why, when some folks use primer 'only' powered wax/plastic rounds for close range/indoor plinking, the flashholes are inlarged to rectify that very issue. But never use those enlarged flashhole cases with full power rounds.

 

[SASS#23149]

Give that man a ceegar !

 

[Walkalong]

Bingo!

 

[The Bushmaster]

Remo-99...You want to elaberate on your reason you believe you shouldn't use those cases that you increased the flash hole size for regular loadings when Winchester does it for their "lead free" cases?

I've reloaded many cases with enlarged flash holes with no problems. But I am willing to learn something new....

 

[1858rem]

just a guess, but with the larger flash hole(how much larger would important to know) you could have a weaker case head leading to splithead(does that even happen lol) mebbe or a primer more likely to get a chunk blown out and frag the shooter. just a few possibilities i thought up

 

[rcmodel]

There is no safety issue with reloading cases with large flash holes.

As already noted, the lead-free ammo comes from the factory with near 1/8" flash holes, and it can be reloaded just like any other cases.

The problem RPCVYemen noted in the OP is the reason the lead-free ammo has huge flash holes.

Initial pressure from a dinol primer is much higher than standard primers.

Some pistols have experienced breechface damage from the lead-free primers backing out so violently.

It was addressed by large flash holes to reduce primer pocket pressure, using Small pistol primers in place of traditional Large primers, and by heavly crimping the primers in place.

 

[ReloaderFred]

rc nailed it and posted it before I got a chance.........

Fred

 

[The Bushmaster]

Aah damn...The two of the three people I look up to the most and they blew it...

I have in my hot little hand a bunch of Winchester .45 ACP cases that have that 1/8" (approximately) flash hole and use large pistol primers without any crimp at all.

Basicly your cases can come in all kinds of variations. That's why it is very importent that you inspect all your cases closely...

 

[ReloaderFred]

Who blew it??? I load the .45 NT rounds all the time, without crimping the primers, and they work just fine, in both large and small pistol primer configurations.

RC just indicated they come with crimping, along with other attempts to solve the problem, from the factories, but there's no problem with loading them with the larger flashholes once the factory loads have been despensed with.

You haven't had your second cup of coffee this morning, have you???

Fred

 

[rcmodel]

I believe the manufactures have continued to refine the lead-free primers, and some may not even still be using Dinol compound.

And it is true you may find any combination of primer size & crimped or not nowdays.

 

[Walkalong]

Did I miss something? I just woke up.

 

[rcmodel]

Naw!

The Bushmaster is just feeling frisky this morning.

Fred & I don't pay no nevermind to him!

 

[The Bushmaster]

That might be my problem. Had 5 cups of coffee and reported one lightning strike caused fire...God must have used some of those big flash holed cases too...

 

[Mal H]

TB - you've got me all confuserated! Are you saying you shouldn't use enlarged primer hole cases with normal loads, hot or not? If you're saying you should strive to load like cases, I agree. Mixing the large/small primer hole cases in a group using the same load would probably lead to varying ballistics in the group.

All in all, though, I agree with rcmodel and Rel Fred. I can't think of a compelling reason not to use cases with enlarged primer holes for standard loads.

 

[The Bushmaster]

And you've had too much coffee this morning Mal. I don't even mix my brass to begin with...I just said there isn't any reason not load cases with enlarged primer flash holes...

I'm blaming this debockle all on Fred and rc... Walkalong just got luck and slept in. That's all...

 

[Walkalong]

I used to separating the large flash hole brass from other brass, but Fred and The Bushmaster finally convinced me it does not matter. I tried it out. I no longer separate the large flash hole brass.

Now if I could just get The Bushmaster to stop wasting his time trimming .45 cases.

He's anal about cases. Me, I shoot a horrid mix of range brass.

 

[The Bushmaster]

RPCVYemen...Ya still with us? One thing is for sure. You are observent and that's good...

I'm O K no matter what these guys say...

 

[ReloaderFred]

I'm O K no matter what these guys say...


Hmmm, I think we should take a vote........

Fred

 

[Uncle Jaque]

Various Reasons...

I have drilled out flash holes for a number of reasons - chiefly for the wax "gallery" rounds as Bill Jordan used to use and described in one of his books. They are cheap and a lot of fun, especially when shooting indoors in the winter time. They just shoot a lot lower than live rounds do. I drilled the holes so as to allow more of the energy from the primer in to propell the wax plug.

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Have also cast "bullets" in a 200 gr. mold using a hot glue gun,

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resulting in sort of rubbery plastic bullets

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which I seat into a .30 tokarev case. The base of the bullet seats against the inside head of the case and the projecting round nose allows it to feed into the chamber of the auto pistol out of the magazine.

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These little bullets pop right out there, seem to take the rifling, are pretty accurate, and usually bounce off of anything of substance that they hit. Sometimes I can reload one several times.

Another thing we used to do when shooting black powder .45-70 is to ream the flash hole out a bit and use magnum primers to blast through the compressed charge of soft coal and get more positive ignition and efficient burn, which in turn produced less fouling.

I too have been under the impression that loading a shell with an enlarged flash hole was a big no-no, especially with smokeless powder full house loads.
glad to know that now I don't have to worry about it.