Factory load data?

[Fall Guy]

I'm wondering if there is any way to find out what powders the ammo companies use in thier loads. I'm sure most don't release that info, but it seems like it would be out there somewhere.

What got me thinking is that my handloads in 30-30 are clocking around 200fps slower than my Federal factory rounds with 150gr bullets (2100fps vs 2300fps). I haven't worked with this round much yet, but I'd like to come close to factory specs. So far I've just tried IMR4895 and RL15. I did just pick up some H4895 and have some IMR4064 on hand so I will play with those next. It just seems like the factory info would be a good starting point for experimentation. Thanks.

 

[Blue68f100]

Most mfg use powders that are not available to the general public. Some are but Federal does not sell powder so you have no idea what their using. Also mfg have access to some very good test equipment. This allows them to push loads higher than what may see in published in books. Remember most load data is just a guide line. Does not mean you can not go over that. But if you do you need to workup very slow looking for signs of over pressure. But you will find in most cases the most accurate is mid range velocity.

 

[NCsmitty]

The powders used in the factory ammo are usually a proprietary blend not available to the handloading public, as noted.

www.hodgdon.com has data and some new powders that supposedly are used in ammo produced by Hornady in their collaboration, in their FTX and superformance ammo. Those powders appear to give a velocity advantage in their respective loads, and if you can find them at your dealer, they may give you the boost in performance that you are seeking.


NCsmitty

 

[Revolver218]

Just for fun, pull several factory loads and weigh them. Then look very closely at the powder. Compare it to others. This will a least get you into the ballpark.

 

[RandyP]

Some ammo factories also change the powder charge/blend regularly. They are not locked in to just 'one' bulk powder. They constantly test to create their designed power factors/fps and adjust the blend for the current batch ammo run.

With a chrono a reloader could develop loads with their powder choice that is a good approximation.

 

[ReloaderFred]

"Just for fun, pull several factory loads and weigh them. Then look very closely at the powder. Compare it to others. This will a least get you into the ballpark."

That's one of the easiest ways there is for a novice reloader to get in trouble. You can't tell what a powder is by simply looking at it.

In most cases, the ammunition manufacturers use what is called "bulk" powders. The powders sold to reloaders are called "canister" powders. The difference is that bulk powder will fall into a general burn rate specified for that powder, while canister powders are blended to fall into rather tight parameters for a specific powder. That's why loading data manuals can publish data for a different powders, since they've been blended to a specific burn rate.

Powders are made all over the world. The powder pulled from a factory round may have been made at St. Marks, Fl., Australia, Hungary, Switzerland, Finland, Canada, etc. There is no way of knowing what the powder is by looking at it.

Ammunition manufacturers have ballistics labs to work up a load for a particular powder in a caliber and bullet weight. Bulk powders come in shipments of thousands of pounds, so a load is worked up for that lot, but may differ for the next lot, since the burn rate may be slightly different, but still within parameters for that powder.

Use the published loading data, and if that doesn't work for you, contact the powder manufacturers and see if they have data they haven't published. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't.

The bottom line is it's not worth blowing up a firearm to achieve an extra couple of hundred feet per second, which may not be as accurate anyway. And sometimes the published data was obtained in a test barrel that may have been a few inches longer than an actual rifle barrel, and that alone can skew the data by a couple hundred feet per second.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[W.E.G.]

Have you actually chronographed the factory ammo at 2300 fps - or is that just the "claimed" velocity on the box?

 

[BullfrogKen]

You won't have access to the bulk powder manufacturers use. They don't pull out a batch of 4895 and load using it. The base powder is blended with ones that have a slower or faster rate until the laboratory arrives at the desired burn characteristics. And that's the powder they use.


Get your education on how powders are made here -

http://www.nij.gov/training/firearms-training/module05/fir_m05_t04_01.htm

 

[cfullgraf]

6.5 Creedmoore is the only cartridge that I know of where the powder used is published. It was one of the requirements from the developers when Hornady took it commercial. Shooters were to be able to exactly duplicate the factory load.

 

[W.E.G.]

This might work.

From Quickload.

I have generally found Quickload to be a bit "optimistic" in its velocity calculations with gas-operated semi-autos.
Haven't tried it yet with fixed-breech guns.

 

[918v]

I'm pretty sure Hornady uses Varget in their 168gr 308 Match ammo based on the powder charge, kernel color, diameter, and length.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Smaller volume manufacturers like Hornady might indeed use commonly available cannister powders. But high volume ammo producers like Federal won't. They're using bulk powder, blended and tested at their ballistics laboratory to arrive at the desired burn characteristics.

 

[RustyFN]

Smaller volume manufacturers like Hornady might indeed use commonly available cannister powders. But high volume ammo producers like Federal won't. They're using bulk powder, blended and tested at their ballistics laboratory to arrive at the desired burn characteristics.

I don't know about you all but that sounds like a fun place to work to me.

 

[W.E.G.]

I did just pick up some H4895 and have some IMR4064 on hand so I will play with those next

Quickload thinks you will come up short of your 2300 goal with each of those powders.



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[Fall Guy]

Have you actually chronographed the factory ammo at 2300 fps - or is that just the "claimed" velocity on the box?

I have actually chronographed both my loads and Federal factory loads.

Also, thanks for the Quickload data. I might try working with IMR 3031. I've heard that is about perfect in the 30-30.

 

[4895]

Leverevolution loads claim to be faster. I have a lb. to try, but no chrono.

 

[Centaur 1]

I haven't tried the 150's, but I shoot the Federal 170's in my Marlin 336SS. I reload a lot of 30-30 rounds, all of them are cast bullets that I use for really cheap range practice. I just can't bother trying to work up a hunting load when the Federal rounds shoot as good as they do, and they cost $13 a box at Walmart. This is a five shot group using them, that darn 5th shot gets me every time.:banghead:

 

[W.E.G.]

Leverevolution loads claim to be faster.

140 grain?
http://www.hornady.com/store/30-30-Win-140-gr-monoflex-Leverevolution/