Fallout in Maryland from Virginia Tech

[kingpin008]

Ratzinger - That's exactly the side of the argument that has me wondering..Given that I had my issues when I was 13/14, and I'm almost 26 now..would those records even still exist?

I mean, I could understand if the stays I had were court ordered (which they definetly were NOT) the records might hang around somewhere past my 18th or 21st birthday, but a voluntary stay, from more than 10 years ago? Something tells me they would have been expunged by now, but I have no hard evidence to back that up.

 

[jpk1md]

There isnt a medical record database where they are entered.

YET!

It will probably be required to be entered into the same one that the Real ID is based upon.

I'm all for fighting terrorism...actually more so than most folks but the Real ID Act is a great threat to privacy and freedom.

 

[budney]

DC Circuit Court made it VERY clear that it was their opinion that the 2A was right that existed prior to the Constitution, Prior to English Common Law etc....it is an Innate Right.

Glory be! A court got it right!


--Len.

 

[Glass eye]

People!

MD, funny how you can travel 45 minutes away and gun laws change! Truly can any one explain why politicians love unarmed peasants? I moved from Massachusetts 3 years ago and found gun laws in Virginia to be rather easy! Still though it’s a commonwealth and why do gun laws change from state to state? I was under the impression that guns are a federal issue, it’s in are constitution so why are the states involved? We have a good fight there!!!

So, I ask again why do states have any say in are constitution? Again fire arms are a federal matter not some fat ass in a small office trying to make some hippie tree huggers happy so he’ll get reelected.

 

[Zoogster]

Ratzinger - That's exactly the side of the argument that has me wondering..Given that I had my issues when I was 13/14, and I'm almost 26 now..would those records even still exist?

They most definately do. If you ever work with insurance you would realize that insurance companies have all of those records on file and many do have them in databases. Anytime a release is signed for insurance purposes or to change insurance those records are then duplicated into new databases. These people are motivated by money to keep track of all prior medical history to determine how good of a customer someone is likely to be. Whether they will make many claims, need much medication etc.

The medical profession may not care about those records unless they are dealing with you, but the insurance companies most definately do care because it is a prime way they determine how much profit they will make from a particular individual.

Your medical records as a child will be important to them because it will be a key way to determine existing medical conditions (so if you make a claim on something you didn't list when applying for the policy, they can default based on prior records because you didn't disclose etc) as well as how often they are likely to have to pay for services for you. Insurance is a business after all, and for every person that uses thier insurance often, they need a few people that rarely ever do to pay for it and still make good profit.

If your records show you were hospitalized for stays that are extremely expensive to insurance (running many thousands per day for most institutions) who pick up most of the bill, they are not going to forget you pose that financial risk anytime soon and it will be documented permanently. It also demonstrates a potential for needing psychotropic prescriptions and potential future counseling which they will also end up paying for. So this is a part of thier past financial record, and kept and used for future financial assessment of you in determining rates or whether they want to cover you.
The information is not kept for your benefit, it is kept for thiers, and you signed over a release. As we all know about databases, once the effort has been taken to put something in, it is rarely ever taken out.

 

[FireFalcon]

Procedure like this comes down from the Governors office. Writing letters + telephone calls to the Governors office would be the most effective way to voice opposition to this. Next step should be to contact your state senators and delegates and let them know how you feel about the government prying in to your life.

 

[kingpin008]

Zoogster - That's just the thing, I signed no such waiver. I was a minor child. I can understand where you're coming from, I just can't see how that's legal. If I were voluntarily committed, with my parent's signature, how would that be legal now, more than ten years later?

If I commit a crime as a minor child, usually it will be sealed or expunged when I reach 18-21. I realize that these situations are different, but they do share some important similarities.

I guess I'd like to see hard proof of these records, where they store them, who stores them, and under what circumstances they may be accessed. If in fact they are kept, I want to know about it because they're MY records.

 

[Zoogster]

Zoogster - That's just the thing, I signed no such waiver. I was a minor child.

That is the same as you signing for all intents and purposes. You were not emancipated, so your guardians make choices for you.

I want to know about it because they're MY records.

That is how you see it. They view it as THIER financial records regarding expenses due to you. Just like information about your driving history is stored by auto insurance companies, accesible by them, and changes hands any time you change companies, the same can be said for your medical records.
It is thier business while you are a client, and once it is in thier system they are not going to delete valuable information painstakingly added to thier data base which gives them valuable business information.

This information allows them to compile statistics and determine profitable policies in addition to things specific to the individual. They don't see it as sensitive information on you, they view it simply as a record of business experience with you.

If I commit a crime as a minor child, usually it will be sealed or expunged when I reach 18-21. I realize that these situations are different, but they do share some important similarities.

Well that is just it, your rights and potential life choices were never limited by non public medical history before unless it was a few very limited ailments. So these records and the rules governing them never adapted like the Criminal and Juvenile justice system's rules have. The records of the court are also stored by government agencies more susceptible to laws governing thier storage. Medical records on the other hand are stored by private companies. Even if they created a law mandating removal, they would likely remain as there would be less oversight, and it would still be monetarily valuable information.
So to you they may feel the same, especialy now that they are being applied in law to effect you in the same way a criminal record would, but under the law they are totaly different.

 

[kingpin008]

I dunno. I guess I'm just shocked that an individual in such a situation would have virtually no recourse in the way their information is handled or used.

 

[Fburgtx]

Guys, if dirt-poor illegal immigrants can find lawyers to file countless lawsuits for them, then surely some of us can find some lawyers, too. It's time gun-owners stopped the whining and start taking more action in the courts.

 

[Time Thief]

Sorry all you Marylanders, I am myself a former one for 26 years. I met my wife in KY and moved down here in 96, I will never look back. I went and visited a year ago and you can keep that state and their stupid laws. I really liked the area but those laws just suck. I now have a CCDW permit and will never give that up. I truly beleive there are about 6 states that will be a very long time to go CC if they ever do and you are one of my 6. I never could figure out why but thats the way it is. I do wish you the best though. Come on down to the south, we will take you and give you a permit.

 

[ozwyn]

yet more reasons to ge tthe heck out of MD, or be tempted to vote from the rooftops.

they would enslave us all and our future generations "for the children", the very same children they damn with their laws.

 

[alucard0822]

O'Malleys MD is changing for the worse and quick, one gun law after the other, tax hikes are imminent, 50%increase in our electric bills, and us poor decent MD folk are being held hostage by B-more and the D.C. burbs, and now this, you know the liberals have dealt you a big blow when wacko jacko moves to town http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070704/ap_on_en_mu/people_michael_jackson;_ylt=Aq0AbP55qk5tBvkAGpjoeGbMWM0F


I apolagize in advance for wandering a little ot on this one

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

This is our politics, our country and we the silent majority do nothing. Why do you think that the L section for lawyers in the yellow pages is so thick.
We pass so many laws, almost without regulation. Political whims? Pass a law!
How about another. The police cannot possibly enforce the laws in place, they have to be a walking encyclopedia to do it.
Switzerland takes a much, much longer time to pass a bill into a law. This country? On a #^$@ whim

 

[K-Romulus]

Opposing view here:

I looked at the form and the Md Code and get the impression that this form only allows the MSP to see the state-held records that only pertain to inpatient commitments.

PLUS there seems to be a 3-step test:

1) HISTORY of violence to self or others (meaning this is triggered after-the-fact),
along with/caused by
2) mental illness,
caused by
3) neurological or psychiatric disorder.

All this talk about Prozac, bereavement, etc., doesn't seem to apply. But that's just my reading. (YMMV - esp. with MD anti's desire to "Stretch" things)

 

[jpk1md]

Romulus, its really badly written.....

I (name, address, etc.) authorize the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, or any other similar agency or
department of another state, to disclose to the Department of State Police information limited to
whether I suffer from a mental disorder as defined in § 10-101(f)(2) of the Health--General
Article and have a history of violent behavior against anyone; or whether I have been confined
for more than 30 consecutive days to a mental health facility as defined in § 10-101 of the
Health--General Article.

I acknowledge that this information will be used, solely as part of the investigation required by
Title 5, Subtitle 1 of the Public Safety Article, Annotated Code of Maryland, to determine my
eligibility to possess a regulated firearm. In the event that my application to purchase a regulated
firearm is disapproved, I acknowledge that this authorization and any information obtained via
this authorization may be used in any proceeding relating to such disapproval.
I further acknowledge that I may at any time, except to the extent that the Department of State
Police has already taken action in reliance on it, revoke this authorization by submitting a request
for revocation in writing. If not previously revoked, this authorization will terminate one year
after the date I sign this application or upon notification to me of the denial of this application,
whichever occurs first.

Ok, so you're required to sign a form to authorize the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, or any other similar agency or
department of another state, to disclose to the Department of State Police information

ANY State?

Then according to the statute you are disqualified if:

A: (You) suffer from a mental disorder.....and have a history of violent behavior against anyone....

OR

B: have been confined for more than 30 consecutive days to a mental health facility


Well....who the hell determines what is "A HiSTORY of Violent Behavior"? Is that a misdemeaner scuffle that you were in as a 14 year old or does it require a pattern of well documented convictions?

Poorly written law that leaves way too much to the determination of unspecified individuals.....its a bunch of touchy feely left wing crap.....If it was clearly written and stuck to FACTS and not some schleps FEELINGS/INTERPRETATION it wouldn't be so bad......the damn thing reads like it should be written in CRAYON!

 

[Norton]

jpk - Do you know if there's been any comment from shop owners on the new form? I'd be interested to hear what they're saying about it.

I talked to my regular guy today and he said that the dealers association has retained a lawyer and is preparing to challenge it.

 

[gyp_c2]

ha...

f)(1) "Mental disorder" means a behavioral or emotional illness that results from a psychiatric or neurological disorder.

Any similar agency...how about your insurance company...Thay have a space for your SS#...They'll be able to use your permission to get anything they want...Neurological disorders, behavioral disorder...It's open-ended...They can later fill in the blanks with whatever they want...The great lie about SS# was that it would never be used as an identifier...That worked out didn't it...You don't even have to give a SS# to buy a firearm...at least on the federal forms...you don't...

...I think it's a blanket permission slip to add you to the great non-gun-ownership database in the sky...

 

[alucard0822]

There is a clear definition on the "habbitual user of drugs and/or drunkard" question that includes number of convictions within 5 years.
in fact Adjudicated mentally defective or commited to a mental institution both place the burden on the court as they both are based on cort orders within public records.
This one has language that is so open to interpretation and so broad, with little to no avenue for rebuttal, and no time frame for when exactly you were "found to have a mental disorder". There are no guidelines as to what exactly a "history of violence" is, but as most of us are aware, most any psychologist can single handedly deny ou of your rights at any time during your life. "This first session of therapy, the patient resorted to a VIOLENT outburst after I merely posed a hypothetical excersise for the 50th time. He began stating that this is not helping and he does not know why he ever decided to try therapy, the patient is obviously afflicted with denial brought upon by deppression due to the recent death of .....")

Maybe i'm being a little paranoid about this, but there are about a miles worth of gray area on this one.


oh and just in case they include THR archives in their "background check" I am not actually paranoid they actually ARE out to get us.

 

[-C4-]

I'm just happy I moved out of the Republik when I did.

 

[brutus1776]

i had a m14 transferred to a dealer from out of state earlier this year. feb or march or so. i had to complete the mental health release form. dealer told me that it was king omalley III's newest 'executive order.' i still havent seen the order in writing...