False positive on carbon?

[Flynt]

I've got a new Sako .308 with about 30 rounds down the pipe. FIrst dozen or so were el cheapo Herters; the rest were good quality ammo. I've got all the copper out of the bore, but I can't seem to get patches out without black soot. I use a bronze brush, from the chamber, with a bore guide, and the patches still come out with some black stuff, after probably a hundred passes. (No black stuff with nylon brush.) I'm not using a copper solvent, just CLP or Powder Blast, so I'm not eating up the brush. I wonder if I'm picking up black residue from barrel abrasion, like you do when you run something like J&B bore paste through the bore -- or do I just have a lot of carbon? Thanks.

 

[243winxb]

Get some Hoppe's #9 solvent. Wet bore. Let sit overnight. After using a bronze/copper brush, rinse in 91% Isopropyl Alcohol .

 

[The Big D]

I would strongly recommend you stop. Nothing you are doing to your barrel has any benefit of any sort. You are simply eroding it away with unnecessary cleaning.

 

[243winxb]

I use this for a 223 or 243.

[/URL][/IMG] Good use for old cotton cloth. Cut in strips and apply like tape. The grooves in the patch will remove the dirt & keep it below the bearing surface, not directly rubbing on the bore. For a larger bore, overlap the cotton more.

 

[Flynt]

I would strongly recommend you stop. Nothing you are doing to your barrel has any benefit of any sort. You are simply eroding it away with unnecessary cleaning.

Big D, Thanks for your input, but could you elaborate? It's a stainless barrel, I'm using a soft metal brush on a Dewey rod, with a bore guide. I'm attacking the carbon because I've read that it will build up on the throat and swage bullets. Thanks again.

 

[The Big D]

Big D, Thanks for your input, but could you elaborate? It's a stainless barrel, I'm using a soft metal brush on a Dewey rod, with a bore guide. I'm attacking the carbon because I've read that it will build up on the throat and swage bullets. Thanks again.

The fact that you're cleaning a hard barrel with softer materials doesn't stop erosion - otherwise there would be no such thing as canyons. If I'm reading correctly, you've done FAR more cleaning passes (brush and jag) than you have shot rounds through the rifle. That's totally unnecessary. I'm not sure if what you're seeing is tiny bits of carbon, or material worn off the brush, or barrel steel but no matter which it is your barrel is more than clean enough.

In terms of accuracy, most rifles shot with reasonably clean jacketed ammo can go several hundred rounds with no cleaning and no degradation in accuracy. Many will actually become more accurate over the first 100-500 rounds. It's a little bit rifle dependent, but the rifle will tell you when you need to clean, and then the amount of cleaning needed to restore accuracy is generally in the 3-5 passes range.

With a carbon steel non-chromed barrel in a wet climate you may choose to clean more often just to get water displacing oil into the barrel, but that's about rust prevention not accuracy. With a stainless barrel, the rust issue is moot.

 

[BSA1]

More barrels are ruined by improper or too aggressive cleaning than by neglect.

With today's primers corrosion is greatly reduced. I have cleaned old rifle barrels that have not been cleaned in 30 years and they came out looking bright and pit free. I know more than a few very good rifle shooters that only clean the barrel when accuracy drops off.

Personally I clean my guns once a year in the winter mainly to help pass the time while couped up indoors. Even then I don't worry about getting them perfectly clean. There is no gain by doing so and you running the risk of damage to the bore and crown.

 

[M-Cameron]

People are FAR to paranoid about getting their barrels clean.....to the point that its laughable.

you run 1-2 wet patches, you brush 2-3 times(if needed, its often not), then run 2-3 dry patches.....thats all you need to do.

now is there still going to be some crap in your barrel.... yeah probably....is it going to make a difference......no, not at all.

there is no need to scrub your barrel 100% spotless.......a little streak of lead/ copper/ carbon is not going to make a noticeable difference to your accuracy.

 

[benzy2]

It's easy to get into the mindset of cleaning until it is completely residue free. Dont sweat the small stuff. That next round down the barrel is going to put that fouling back in the bore. I've read of people cleaning everywhere from every 5-10 shots all the way to never and most claim to have better results. What seems true in my experience is that cleaning is an infrequently is the right amount. I don't shoot competitive bench rest but it sure takes a lot of shots before accuracy falls off. At that point, I'll run a brush through it a few times and a patch with oil on it. I think people make a lot out of wearing a barrel out with cleaning as well as a lot out of needing to clean all the time. Somewhere in the middle works well for me.

 

[eldon519]

I would do the cleaning regimen you described after several hundred rounds, not 30. I'd take it easy on it. Jags do a better job of getting dirty solvent out than slotted tips.

 

[Tirod]

The OP started with the title "false positive" and yes, it is. An actual chemical test to prove it was carbon after the 5th brushing would have shown it was copper residue.

It's not going to stop until you do.

 

[MEHavey]

Doubt it was copper residue, but it most likely was one of two things (in order)

- Actual carbon from underlying/sandwich-layered carbon-under-copper from multiple cleanings where the previous copper wasn't removed between firings:banghead: (Use KG-12 to get both)
- Actual steel from the barrel where it was being polished/metal removed as happen when using any metal polish.

Never fear though: There's a proven 4-step technique.
- Two wet solvent patches.
- Three dry patches.
- ---- Oil it -----
- Walk away.

 

[AKElroy]

I would strongly recommend you stop. Nothing you are doing to your barrel has any benefit of any sort. You are simply eroding it away with unnecessary cleaning.

+1. I am a freak about having good-shooting rifles, and I am a firm believer in the "less is more" approach to cleaning. I RARELY use a bronze brush in any of my rifles. I wet the bore with #9, let it sit while I clean the rest of the weapon, and then run a bore-snake through it 2-3 times. Until accuracy starts to drop off, that is it. I do not care what color a patch might be since I do not use patches other than to mop the bore with Hoppe's. I inspect the bore with a bore-light, and if it looks clean and shoots where I want it to, I'm done.