Family wants to borrow gun ...

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357_

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Question answered, please delete or lock.

... Thanks.
 
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Sell a firearm to him with bill of sale, transfer through a FFL only if you live somewhere dumb that requires it. You shouldn't be liable for the actions of a responsible adult, but a bill of sale with responsibility disclaimer might give you both peace of mind.

You might want to make sure the GF isn't a prohibited person, but I don't think you're even legally obligated to do that, really.
Posting your state might help others understand the silly hoops you have to jump through for a private sale, also.
 
Sounds like he's responsible enough, lend him a gun. In that situation I would not give him a real nice gun, just something thats sound and shoots. I have beater guns for those kind of situations.
 
Yeah, what BFD said

Make sure he can legally have it, isn't going to carry it without proper legal licences etc.

What would help the most, is a good CAMERA
Also give them a copy of http://www.amazon.com/Gift-Fear-Gavin-Becker/dp/0440226198

Sorry, but if he uses the gun, don't ever expect to get it back, Also, what is stopping him from buying a Hi-Point (about 150) and taking a CCW class??

As for the guy, yeah, EVIDENCE, and that means record, record and never leave home with out a camera AND voice recorder
 
Do it. I don't think that theres a legal issue there, but I'm no lawyer.

I'll be honest with you, a few of my friends have gone out with real psychos, so my input is about as far from objective as humanly possible.
 
I don't really have any handguns that are "beater" guns
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All I can do is tell you what I would do in your shoes then.
I would hook up a family member with a CZ82, a brick of ammo, and range time ... or help them get their own guns.
The exact gun might change over time, but the CZ82 is (in my opinion) the current best cheap surplus gun, it runs pretty damn well, fires a viable duty caliber cartridge and has 12+1 capacity, as well as being easy to operate.

And I wouldn't care if they carried it without a permit, either ... not my problem ... I would encourage them to get a permit ASAP, but adults can break the law on their own, I really don't care.

I would still balk at introducing a firearm into the home of a prohibited person, though. Case-by-case evaluation would be required and I might distance myself further if the GF is prohibited for a silly reason and I'd avoid the whole situation if she was prohibited for a reason I agree with or was just plain non-responsible.
 
357_ said:
No legal need to use an FFL in our state, private sales are fine.

Problem is I don't really have any handguns that are "beater" guns, I may end up working out some drive-time and gas to get him his collection.
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THIS, IMO, would be your best recorse. Heck if your Bro. rides with you, it may give you guys some "Bonding" time..Just my 2 cents worth..Bill..
 
If he really is your brother you should have no problem lending him a gun to tuck under his mattress at least. Just advise him not to carry it till he gets his CCW. If my bro had a problem like that I would tell him sure, you can use my high point c9. Thankfully he has his own guns. Or take him to his grandparents and have a good time on the ride. I'm sure he knows his way around a gun and knows deadly force: Opportunity, Intent, and Capability. Something to keep in mind, but I don't think I have heard once on here...
 
bigfatdave said:
You shouldn't be liable for the actions of a responsible adult, but a bill of sale with responsibility disclaimer might give you both peace of mind.
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Responsibility disclaimer? If something "bad" happens, the lawyers will eat the seller up with that one.
"Why did you put a responsibility disclaimer in your BOS, Mr. Seller? Do you always sell your guns with such a disclaimer? No? So you expected it to be needed? If so, why did you sell the gun to the buyer?"
bigfatdave said:
You might want to make sure the GF isn't a prohibited person, but I don't think you're even legally obligated to do that, really.
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Where in the world did this come from?

A seller isn't responsible for anyone's status but the buyer.

It's the buyer that would need to be aware of the proper handling of firearms while living with a prohibited person.
 
You could possibly be held liable considering you are his brother and have knowledge of what he intends on using it for.

I was in the same position with a friend who asked to borrow a gun for the exact same circumstances and I told him to go to kmart and buy one for $65 at the time.

It would make more sense for him or the woman to buy a cheap shot gun at a discount store etc. and that would make it the stores problem and who ever bought it, should it be used in a shooting.

You have to remember to not make your brothers problems, your own and set your priorities straight.
 
357_ said:
Edit~ Yes, I sell EVERYTHING with a waiver. I have a filing cabinet full of every Bill of Sale I've ever signed. Everytime I've sold something it includes a brief liability disclaimer. Nothing like making it explicitly clear. As for lawyer's eating that up,
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You did not comprehend my post.

If every time you sell a gun, it's with a BOS containing a disclaimer, the lawyers can't touch you.

If you produce a BOS with a "new" disclaimer added just for the above situation, then you've shown that you suspected something "bad" would happen and the lawyers will start gnawing.
 
Court appoint are solely to represent the creap in his CRIMINAL trial, most states have a version of Castle doctrine, meaning that they can't sue, many others have a version where the 'accused' can't sue for damages sustained in a criminal act etc.

So he would have to find a ambulance chaser or do it himself. As long as it was a good shoot....
Read the Gift of Fear, the main question is what the creep 'wants'
also, have the GF (wow he can choose those that choose 'them')
do this https://www.mosaicmethod.com/
 
I agree that the waiver could cause more trouble than it may prevent. I'd also add that if it's a house gun I'd get him a shotgun or carbine. The only advantage of a handgun is portability and concealment. What he needs is stopping power.

Best of luck
 
For family I would not give it a second thought. But I would require them to come to the range with me first to ensure they knew how to safely operate it.
 
Personally, I wouldn't loan it. I would either give it to him outright or sell it to him.

My understanding is that a "loan" of your property to him carries more liability to you then if a total transfer of ownership takes place. If you loan it, it's still *your" gun, and there is liability attached. If he buys it, or you gift it and make it clear that it is his property now, you have less liability.

I'm not an attorney though, so you're best bet may be to consut an attorney in your state.
 
When a drug dealer moved in accross the street from my brother, I didnt hesitate to loan him a gun and a video camera. Now being as I am a tech nut, I forwarded the camera to his iPhone and he would call in the plates of everyone who "dropped by".
 
If the situation is serious enough to warrant the police you'd be a fool not to loan one of your guns to your brother. You'll feel real great about how you avoided some probably imaginary liability when your brother has his face caved in by the ex con.

If you loan a car to someone are you liable if they rob a bank? If you loan a chainsaw to someone are you liable if they hack someone to death with it? I think the answer is no. If I'd loan my skil saw or car to someone I'd loan them one of my handguns.

I'm not aware of anyone whose loaned a firearm to someone getting into any trouble. I always hear this, never seen any news articles or court cases.

I'd loan a firearm to a friend in need and would hand one to my brother (who I haven't even seen in a couple years) without hesitation.
 
the lawyers will eat the seller up with that one.
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Huh?
It is on the standard BoS form, and my other bills of sale aren't going to be relevant anyway.

Stop fetishizing guns, you're not responsible for the actions of others with property you sell or give to them, be it a gun, knife, bottle, marital aid, vehicle or cinderblock. Living in fear of a hypothetical dirtbag lawyer isn't helping.
 
Some interesting comments above -

To be honest, I do not understand the question at all. If my brother asked to borrow a firearm he would have it in his hands about the time he finished the question. (that little dot is a period)
 
If my brother felt the need to ask for a gun, it's his I don't now what you or his financial situation is and I don't know where grandma lives in relation to ya'll. If your worried about it just go halfs on a weekend cruise to grandma's house.

He can pick up his guns and I bet grandma will feed ya'll good when your there:) And if shes that far away, she'll appreciate it.

If you trust his judgement I see no problem loaning it to him.

As far as the legalities I have no idea, to me it wouldn't matter.
 
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