Famous lawmen's and bad guys' guns

[Coyote Rider]

I've heard about Wild Bill's '51 Navies and I have vague recollections of hearing that Buffalo Bill used a Remmy and John Wesley Hardin an 1860, and Wyatt Earp may or may not have owned a Ned Buntline custom job, but what about other famous figures from the Wild West? I'd imagine there have got to be people in this forum who could tell you what Judge Roy Bean or Bat Masterson or Frank and Jesse James or Billy the Kid used. Anyone care to share their knowledge on this subject with the rest of us?

 

[Dithsoer]

Dallas Stoudenmire had a pair of .44 caliber Smith and Wesson No. 3 Americans that he carried in specially made leather lined hip pockets. Doc Holliday carried a Colt SAA .45 with 7.5 inch barrel for many years. Pat Garret had, among others, a Merwin and Hulbert revolver, .38 caliber, double action hammerless with ivory grips. He also had a Hopkins and Allen .32 d.a. Frank James carried an 1875 Remington in .44-40, Belle Starr a .45 SAA. Wild bunch member William "Bill Kick" Darley was given a Colt .45 by "Kid Curry".
Charles Boles, alias Black Bart had a Loomis IXL no. 15 double barrel shotgun with short barrels.
Ned Buntline also had an 1874 Sharps in .45, 2 7/8 inch.
Tom Threepersons carried SAA in .45 after the turn on the century. Charles Goodnight had a factory engraved 1873 Winchester. Roosevelt used a Winchester 1876 carbine and engraved, ivory-stocked Colt SAA with 7.5 inch barrel.
If your interested in more info I'll dig some up.

 

[LeonCarr]

J. Edgar Hoover was presented with Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum Registration Number 1 while he was FBI Director. After he passed away in 1974, the revolver was never found.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Shawnee]

Here's some Billy the Kid trivia...

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Billy was right-handed.
In the 20th century, it was widely assumed that Billy the Kid was left-handed.
This belief came from the fact that the only known photograph of Bonney, an undated ferrotype, shows him with a Model 1873 Winchester rifle in his right hand and a gun belt with a holster on his left side, where a left-handed person would typically wear a pistol. The belief became so entrenched that in 1958, a biographical film was made about Billy the Kid called The Left Handed Gun starring Paul Newman. Late in the 20th century, it was discovered that the familiar ferrotype was actually a reverse image. This version shows his Model 1873 Winchester with the loading port on the left side. All Model 1873s had the loading port on the right side, proving the image was reversed, and that he was, in fact, wearing his pistol on his right hip. Even though the image has been proven to be reversed, the idea of a left-handed Billy the Kid continues to widely circulate.
______________________________________

He was known to (or said to) carry a pistol with a "bird's head" grip, which would probably indicate a variation of the SAA. But I also recall that the pistol he carried, whatever it was, wasn't a .45 or .44. Hopefully someone who knows will wander by and clear that up for us.

 

[Bezoar]

well its been proven somehow that hickock switched to a pair of 1851 cartridge conversions once his eye sight started going bad.

 

[sundance44s]

I read Billy carried the bird head griped Colt Thunderer would have been 38 Colt . In the day.

 

[pohill]

Belle Starr had a pair of 38s.

 

[qwert65]

I read in a book on colt that B. Masterson orded a SAA4-3/4" with the front sight cut down. Now if thats what he carried everyday I have no idea

 

[ZeSpectre]

John Coffee (Jack) Hays of Texas Ranger fame apparently used whatever was available though I have heard the rumor more than once that he also had a much loved Howdah Hunter Pistol (kind of a mini double barrel shotgun) that he used to keep with him.

Famous FBI lawman Delf "Jelly" Bryce used an old smoothbore .38 and later (when they became available) preferred the .357 Magnum.


Clyde Barrow (Bonnie and Clyde)preferred the Browning Automatic Rifle in .30 Cal. and my understanding is that Bonnie liked shotguns.

 

[Steve499]

Based upon the numbers his mom sold, Jessie James carried a different revolver every week. Must have been something like when the President signs a bill with a bunch of pens.

 

[sundance44s]

Dolly Pardon packs a pair of 45`s

I read Jessie`s mother was buying old 50 dollar pistols from a local hardware store , to keep the buying public supplied with Jessie`s pistols . She had quite a racket going .

 

[Harve Curry]

Capt. Jack Crawford the poet Scout had a engraved 1873 Win src, 44wcf, it reads in part Chief of Scouts. I have had it in my hands and it has a custom scabbard.

A few years ago Kid Curry's Colt SAA sold at auction for about $10k.

Those photographs of Billy the Kid were taken with a studio camera that made four exposures at a time, 4 lenses, two on top, two on bottom. An expert can tell which lens a photo came from by the angle of the portrait. As I undertand it, the last known original was owned by the same people of the newspaper Albuquerque Journal, and that it has deteriorated to where the image is gone. So the copies that exist are all that is. Shawnee's correct about the images being reversed, The Kid was right handed just like the rest of us. I have a couple of photo's taken from the original years ago. That's as good as it gets.

About 1945 a Evans Repeating 44 rifle was found in the burned out cabin of Nate Champion where he held off the cattle barons in the Johnson County War of 1892(year?). It was kept in the sheriff's dept as evidence untill sometime in the 1960's.

In a famous photo of the James gang standing in front of a cave, Jesse is holding what looks to me like a 1881 Marlin rifle.

 

[ZeSpectre]

The Kid was right handed just like the rest of us.

Hah, speak for yourself!

 

[Old Fuff]

Dallas Stoudenmire had a pair of .44 caliber Smith and Wesson No. 3 Americans that he carried in specially made leather lined hip pockets.

That would have been a good trick - those .44 American Model .44 Smith & Wesson's had 8 inch barrels...

What he did carry was a cut-down Colt 1872 model "open top" with the ejector assembly removed, as a back-up gun.

What was carried by whom can start a lot of arguments, but keep in mind that like today, 19th century gunfighters/gunmen on both sides of the law weren't limited to a particular gun. On the other hand after their passing it turned out that some of the more famous ones had extensive collections - including some that were made after they died.

So how does one know? Well Bat Masterson for example ordered a number of revolvers directly from the factory, and his letters are still around. He seemed to prefer nickel plate, and early orders specified 7 1/2" barrels, where later ones were for shorter lengths. We know that Frank McLaury and Billy Clanton had Colt .44 Frontier model Single Actions with 71/2" barrels at the O.K. Corral gunfight because they were described in court records which included the serial numbers.

In any case, when someone says that such-and-such was carried by whoever, take it with a grain of salt.

Only the Old Fuff knows....

 

[sundance44s]

It wouldn`t be that hard for a man to get known for carrying one gun or another ...When they lay me to rest there`s a lot of folks that know me that will say ..he sure favored his 1858 Remingtons , and his 1860 Henry rifle .

 

[StrawHat]

Stoudenmire supposedly had a pairs of the conversions. One was cut to 3" and the other was left at 8".

I read somewhere he carried them in the front pockets of the trousers barrel up. The draw was made by grabbing the barrel and pulling up, flipping the gun to put the butt in the hand. Someone else used the same draw at some time, one of the Earps?

The guy that killed Stoudenmire also carried a short barrel 1860, not sure if it was a conversion.

Geronimo was know to carry a Dance revolver and also had a 50-70 trapdoor.

When the men in his tribe complained the soldiers were making them turn in their firearms he supposedly said "...go ahead, we will continue to kill the soldiers and Mexicans with rocks..."

R. E. Lee favored the Colt 1851 and the Colt Root sidehammer.

Custer had RIC Webleys and a 50-70 rolling block at the Big Horn.

Mostly they used what was available and not what Hollywood portrays.

 

[Harve Curry]

"When the men in his tribe complained the soldiers were making them turn in their firearms he supposedly said "...go ahead, we will continue to kill the soldiers and Mexicans with rocks..."

I've looked when I get the chance but have never found any Indian guns hidden away in rocky ledges or caves.

 

[DMZ]

Geronimo carried a Colt SAA, with ivory grips, with a fancy belt, knife and holster. He reportedly took them from a Mexican that he had killed on one of his raids south of the border. He also carried a Winchester repeater (probably a Model 1873) and was a very good shot with it.

 

[Pancho]

Back in 1977 I went to a museum dedicated to the Texas Rangers. One of them had part of his upper arm shot away and had a Winchester custom made with an offset stock to address his problem. Can anyone remember his name?

 

[Dithsoer]

"Dallas Stoudenmire had a pair of .44 caliber Smith and Wesson No. 3 Americans that he carried in specially made leather lined hip pockets."


While I cetainly respect the Old Fuff's opinion, I've got to stick by this one. The information comes from Joseph G. Rosa, who has probably done more research on this subject than all of us combined.
Besides, while he was known to carry these guns, few pictures exist (if any) of him actually carrying a gun, even though he was a law officer.
It does state that he did also have an 1860 conversion, cut down, but it doesn't mention how it was carried.

 

[Old Fuff]

I share your respect for Joseph Rosa, But in this case he made a mistake. The hip-pocket gun was a Colt .44 Richards-Mason conversion that had the ejector assembly removed, and the barrel cut to about 3 (not 2) inches. It would obviously fit in a hip pocket; a Smith & Wesson .44 American Model with an 8 inch barrel wouldn't. With such a rig the user couldn't sit down! There is a slight possibility that the leather lined pockets in question were side pockets, or coat pockets, but not hip pockets.

The Colt was serial number 6904; one of the two Smith & Wesson American Models, nickel plated with ivory stocks, was serial number 7056. Both still exist. I can post pictures.

 

[oneshooter]

Texas Ranger Museum

The Museum of the Texas Rangers is in Waco Texas, and still in operation. 80% of the stuf inside was donated by the fellow who is also the curator of the museum!

http://www.texasranger.org/


Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[John-Melb]

Let's see now

E. Kelly - Navy Colt + Colt Revolving Carbine
A. Steele - D/B Shotgun, believed to be English made 12
J. Dowsett - Colt SAA
B. Hall - Tranter
J Gilbert - Adams Carbine
J. Bright - Callisher and Terry Carbine
F. Pottinger - four barreled Sharps repeating pistol

Now a question from me, who were these people?

 

[Library Guy]

>>Now a question from me, who were these people?

Australians. And better off dead according to the song at least...