Faster or Slower Powder?

[ngaither]

I was doing some load work up on .357 Rem Max this last weekend and it didn't go well at all. I got my load data from the Hornady manual and started with 18.6gr of H110 and worked up to 20.4gr in .2gr increments with CCI 450 primers. With the first loads of 18.6grs there was a lot of soot and unburnt powder in the barrel and around the cartrigdes and the speeds had a variance of about 225fps. I figured that if I just kept going up in powder that maybe the burn of the powder would get better but it didn't. I got the about the same resault all the was up to 20.4grs with no sign of high pressers.

So I guess that this is just not the powder that I need to use but I don't know if I should try a slower powder like AA1680 or a fast to powder like Lil Gun to get a more complete burn.

 

[rcmodel]

Wish you had mentioned what bullet weight you were using??

If in the 158 - 160 grain range?

You are well below Hodgdons listed starting load of 22.0 grains.
MAX is 24.0.

H110, or about any other magnum handgun powder will not burn clean until you get it up to operating pressure.

rc

 

[918v]

Less bell, more case tension, don't overcrimp.

 

[CraigC]

Wish you had mentioned what bullet weight you were using??

If in the 158 - 160 grain range?

You are well below Hodgdons listed starting load of 22.0 grains.
MAX is 24.0.

H110, or about any other magnum handgun powder will not burn clean until you get it up to operating pressure.

^^^ What he said. If you're not using enough, you'll get the results you're seeing. H110/296 likes to be run at higher pressures.

 

[buck460XVR]

^^^ What he said. If you're not using enough, you'll get the results you're seeing. H110/296 likes to be run at higher pressures.

+2 to what RC said. Also, H110/W296 likes a heavy crimp for consistent burn and consistent accuracy.

 

[ngaither]

Sorry I was using 180gr SSP bullets and was shooting this through a rifle.

Hornady list H110 starting load at 17.3 and max at 20.0 and I went to 20.4 and still had problems with complete burn.

 

[CraigC]

My data lists a CCI 400's for the .357Max, not 450's. Your primers may be too hot, which can make a difference.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My data lists a CCI 400's for the .357Max, not 450's. Your primers may be too hot, which can make a difference.

The Hodgdon load data lists a Remington 7 1/2 primers which is a magnum strength primer.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Sorry I was using 180gr SSP bullets and was shooting this through a rifle.

Hornady list H110 starting load at 17.3 and max at 20.0 and I went to 20.4 and still had problems with complete burn.

Using a 180gr TMJ bullet the Hodgdon online data lists a range for H110 @19.0gr to 21.0gr.

Lets get this right especially with a powder like H110.

 

[56hawk]

I would try a different brand of primer before anything else. I load H110 in a lot of different rounds, and have only had two problems. CCI LR primers in the 500 S&W caused a squib, and the 454 Casull had inconsistent burns with Winchester SR primers. Oddly switching to the CCI 450 solved the problems with the 454.

 

[Grumulkin]

I was doing some load work up on .357 Rem Max this last weekend and it didn't go well at all. I got my load data from the Hornady manual and started with 18.6gr of H110 and worked up to 20.4gr in .2gr increments with CCI 450 primers. With the first loads of 18.6grs there was a lot of soot and unburnt powder in the barrel and around the cartrigdes and the speeds had a variance of about 225fps. I figured that if I just kept going up in powder that maybe the burn of the powder would get better but it didn't. I got the about the same resault all the was up to 20.4grs with no sign of high pressers.

So I guess that this is just not the powder that I need to use but I don't know if I should try a slower powder like AA1680 or a fast to powder like Lil Gun to get a more complete burn.

1. A lot of soot in the barrel and blackening of the case means the pressure is low. I've never seen an exception to this. That said, in some firearms, the pressure has to be low to be safe so I would have to ask, what firearm? If an Encore, keep in mind they're OK with even the 460 S&W Magnum which has a SAAMI top pressure rating of 65,000 psi.

2. You could try A 1680; I use it in one of my 460 S&W Magnum loads but I don't think your problem has anything to do with how fast or slow your powder is. Personally, I'd never use Lil' Gun in anything except the 410 shotgun shells it was meant for.

3. I can't account for the "squib" mentioned by the above poster. A squib means not enough pressure was generated to make the bullet exit the barrel. I have had problems with failure to fire with CCI primers in a S&W revolver which I believe is caused by their hardness but I had no squib.

4. You shouldn't have to use a magnum primer in a 357 Maximum but it doesn't hurt. You might though get better accuracy with a different primer.

5. I find a crimp useful in improving accuracy in low pressure loads or to keep bullets from moving under recoil in firearms capable of holding more than one cartridge. I don't crimp for cartridges to be fired in single shot firearms unless I were to be reloading for a low pressure cartridge.

 

[Fatelvis]

I use IMR4227 for all my 357 Max loads, from 180 XTPs to 215 home cast bullets . I shoot them in a DW revolver, or Contender, and it always is accurate and relatively clean burning.

 

[CraigC]

Something is keeping pressure from building. Either you're not getting your cases resized properly, your expander plug is too big, your crimp is too weak or your charge is too low.

 

[56hawk]

3. I can't account for the "squib" mentioned by the above poster. A squib means not enough pressure was generated to make the bullet exit the barrel.

I can't either. The primer generated enough pressure to push the bullet into the barrel and compress the powder charge into a solid cylinder, but didn't ignite it. That was my first load with CCI primers, and I don't intend to do a second.

 

[ngaither]

Something is keeping pressure from building. Either you're not getting your cases resized properly, your expander plug is too big, your crimp is too weak or your charge is too low.

After reading everyones remarks that was kind of my thoughts because I didn't crimp the bullets because is a H & R single shot rifle and didn't think that I needed too.

 

[CraigC]

H110 absolutely requires a firm roll crimp for it to work properly.

 

[sugarmaker]

You're using a powder with a very narrow optimum range. 296/H110 is great if:

1.) You are 90% density or higher
2.) You are in the 35KPSI+ range
3.) You have enough initial resistance (crimp, pull, cyl, bullet mass)

Most pistols max out PSI wise about when this powder is just getting going well, hence it's not very flexible. It does produce very good results with magnum loads, but any less than max you're better off with a more flexible powder.

 

[Grumulkin]

A different cartridge but perhaps pertinent. I shoot a 357 Herrett which, though it's a bottle necked case, has similar volume/performance to the 357 Maximum. I use IMR 4227 in it with 158 gr. bullets and CCI 250 magnum primers. I tried various other primers with this load and the CCI 250 primers gave the best accuracy. I guess what I'm saying is that IMR 4227 might be worth trying.

 

[Fatelvis]

Try 4227. I bet you don't go back to H110

 

[ngaither]

Thanks I really appreciate all the different ideas that you guys have thrown out to me on this one. I have been loading for a couple of years now and this is the first time I have tried loading for a round that there is really low data on for rifle loading. Which I really don't know how much of a difference it really makes. I just wanted a challenge and boy it's turning into a good one.

P.S. On a side note is pretty cool showing up to the range and range officers and don't even know what kind of round this is.