Federal HST 38 Special

[SteadyD]

Midway is taking pre orders for the Federal HST 38 special and according to their site they expect them in tomorrow (though they are sometimes wrong on their expected in stock dates). I've got a few boxes back ordered, but was wondering if anyone has yet to try this round?

I'm looking forward to seeing some tests in gel. It's a shame it didn't make it into Lucky Gunner's recent tests.

 

[USSR]

At $1.05 per round plus shipping, there won't be a lot of it sold. Looks like they are finally getting around to producing the original Hydra-Shok prior to them buying the rights, then getting it horribly wrong by jacketing the bullet. Personally, I'll just continue to reload the original 146gr all lead Hydra-Shoks for about $0.05 each.

Don

 

[SteadyD]

Federal HST bullets are some of the best performers out there in several calibers, at least according to ballistics gel tests. I feel rather certain they'll sell a boat load of them, even at those prices. At some point hopefully they'll be available in 50 round boxes for less than $30 like the 9mm in 124 and 147 grain.

 

[Alte Schule]

As someone who often carries a .38 Special J frame this is interesting news. I picked up two boxes of HST .380 last week at Academy for $15 a box of twenty.

 

[Panzerschwein]

What is the purpose of the bullet being nearly flush with the case mouth?

To make it as hard as possible to reload the gun?

 

[Dill]

about time. And I agree about the 50 round boxes vs. the 20 round boxes. I will be intrigued to see some gel tests.

 

[SteadyD]

What is the purpose of the bullet being nearly flush with the case mouth?

To make it as hard as possible to reload the gun?

Per federal, eliminating empty case space will ensure more consistent velocities. I'd definitely carry something else for a reload.

 

[Walkalong]

Per federal, eliminating empty case space will ensure more consistent velocities. I'd definitely carry something else for a reload.

It will do that, and from 2" guns with the powder away from the primer (Bringing the gun up to fire), it can be tough keeping velocity where you need it. I have tested a lot of loads that way. Some of which were with 135 Gr Gold Dots trying to get a safe load that gets the velocity needed to expand the bullet every time, regardless of powder position.

 

[Walkalong]

For those who only buy a box or two of practice/carry ammo every year the price won't be an issue.

 

[Dill]

It will do that, and from 2" guns with the powder away from the primer (Bringing the gun up to fire), it can be tough keeping velocity where you need it. I have tested a lot of loads that way. Some of which were with 135 Gr Gold Dots trying to get a safe load that gets the velocity needed to expand the bullet every time, regardless of powder position.

curious any more info you may have on this (PM is fine) as I've been struggling with the same issue, a non +P round that expands in 38 special.

 

[Gary A]

a non +P round that expands in 38 special.

I think non +P rounds from a snub barrel tend to suffer in the same way as .380. If they expand, they tend to under penetrate. If they penetrate well, it is probably because they didn't expand. Lucky Gunner did some interesting tests. I have a goodly supply of Federal Nyclads but they tend to penetrate a little on the shallow side. Winchester Silvertips even more so. The Winchester Train and Defend, I think it is, looks promising. Sometimes, esp in winter, I figure just go with a plain Jane 158 grain standard pressure semi-wadcutter and get a pretty clean .36 caliber hole deep into the target. 148 grain wadcutters are another viable option though they don't reload well from speedloaders.

 

[Dill]

I think non +P rounds from a snub barrel tend to suffer in the same way as .380. If they expand, they tend to under penetrate. If they penetrate well, it is probably because they didn't expand. Lucky Gunner did some interesting tests. I have a goodly supply of Federal Nyclads but they tend to penetrate a little on the shallow side. Winchester Silvertips even more so. The Winchester Train and Defend, I think it is, looks promising. Sometimes, esp in winter, I figure just go with a plain Jane 158 grain standard pressure semi-wadcutter and get a pretty clean .36 caliber hole deep into the target. 148 grain wadcutters are another viable option though they don't reload well from speedloaders.

you're likely right. It seems like the XTP's don't expand at 38 special velocity. The 110 FTX's look promising, but not available to reloaders.

 

[SeanSw]

I hope it's improved in more ways than one. Increased consistency won't help much when Federal's own 129gr +p hydra shok doesn't break 800fps from a snub, the most typical barrel length for a new self defense load, and seems to offer little more in longer barrels. For over $1/rd they are competing with some very premium ammunition choices.

Wasn't there a Federal 147 +p .38 special load at one time?

 

[USSR]

I think non +P rounds from a snub barrel tend to suffer in the same way as .380. If they expand, they tend to under penetrate. If they penetrate well, it is probably because they didn't expand.
...Federal Nyclads but they tend to penetrate a little on the shallow side. Winchester Silvertips even more so.

This is the problem with bimetallic bullets. Basically, you are asking 2 metals with completely different characteristics to work together well. This is rarely the case, and the Winchester Silvertip is one of the worst. The best you can do is 2 things: First, have an all lead bullet composed of an alloy high in tin and low in antimony that is suited to the velocity of your load; and secondly, use a heavy for caliber bullet, since aside from the degree to which a hollowpoint expands, SD is important in determining how deep a bullet will penetrate.

Don

 

[SteadyD]

The HST is listed as still not in stock at Midway. I'm curious to see how the recoil compares to my preferred self defense rounds, given that the HST is a standard pressure round. I don't think I'll carry them until I've seen some testing done. Given the lackluster performance of the short barrel gold dots in some recent tests, I'm hesitant to trust an untested bullet design, even if it is specifically for short barrel revolvers. Now if only they would start shipping them...

I've also been waiting to see some tests on the Remington ultimate defense compact 38s. They look just like a golden saber but perhaps there are differences that aren't outwardly apparent. At any rate, I'll stick with the original golden sabers until I've seen gel tests with appropriate penetration and expansion.

 

[pharmer]

At $.33/rd (delivered) I'm going with these. Joe
https://www.cdnnsports.com/38spl-p-130gr-bonded-hp-winchester-ranger-box-50.html?___SID=U

 

[SteadyD]

I picked some of those up from sgammo recently and was disappointed with the quality control. Vastly different bullet seating depths in each box.

 

[_N4Z_]

I did a lot of research looking for a carry load in my LCR 38+p, and one of many sources of valuable info was the lab testing done at LuckyGunner. I went with Winchester Ranger 130jhp +p's, 50 round count. I would be curious to see how these new HST's perform in similar testing, but am more than happy with what I currently have.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Wasn't there a Federal 147 +p .38 special load at one time?

Yup- The 147 gr Hydra-Shok +P+. The load they should have released now is a tweaked 147 or 150 gr HST at about 950 fps instead this recessed bullet thing.

 

[RPZ]

I fail to understand cost as a factor. In a revolver, barring ignition problems, there is no need to run any more than is necessary to sight in. Add a few boxes for a decade of carry. For practice, sure, use the cheapest stuff you can make or find.

 

[USSR]

RPZ,

I believe more than a few of us like to train with what we carry. I know I do. That's why I cast my own.

Don

 

[straightshooterjake]

I have mixed feelings about the importance of cost when choosing defensive ammo for revolvers. A revolver does not require as much carry ammo to be used during practice as a semi-auto does, but even with revolvers, I think it is important to fire some carry ammo occasionally.

 

[strambo]

RPZ,

I believe more than a few of us like to train with what we carry. I know I do. That's why I cast my own.

Don

Well, if POA/POI is the same with similar recoil, why would it matter for training if the bullet is exactly the same? Just load (or buy) training ammo with the same bullet weight at the same velocity.

 

[USSR]

strambo,

While 2 bullets may have the same weight, different bullet designs have a different amount of the bullet inside the case, thereby resulting in different pressure, to say nothing about the different powders used. You gonna chronograph each ammo to determine velocity, and what are the odds of them matching? Sorry, but this guy trains with exactly what he carries. And since I train nearly every weekend, I sure ain't gonna be paying $1+ per pop.

Don

 

[strambo]

Whatever floats your boat. I'd rather carry the most effective ammo I can and train with loads that are close enough. After all, self defense shootings happen up close and aren't exactly a trick shooting exhibition or a precision long range rifle match.

How much training/experience do you have hitting things under high stress? I doubt 50fps either way is going to matter, at handgun distances, with a heart rate skyrocketing along with the other effects of adrenaline against a moving person shooting back.