Fedex won't ship "ghost gunner" cnc mill

Status
Not open for further replies.
How did anyone at Fedex even know what's in the box?

If I ordered something like this I would be extremely pissed off if there was anything on the box that even hinted at what's inside.

...And if I was a cynical person I'd say this sounds an awful lot like a publicity stunt.
 
Last edited:
Until other shipping companies jump on the stupid bandwagon. Then what, drive cross country to pick it up?
 
I'm wondering what is going on with Fedex and or the USPS.
Monday I placed an order with Natchez and in checkout I was informed I could not have the items shipped by Fedex SmartPost since one or more of the items violated their terms of service or regulations- I forget exactly how they stated it.
Huh?
The items were a trigger pull gauge, a box of reloading bullets, a rifle stock and a gun screw kit.
I can't see where any of these are a problem.
 
Last edited:
I'm wondering what is going on with Fedex and or the USPS.
Monday I placed an order with Natchez and in checkout I was informed I could not have the items shipped by Fedex SmartPost since one or more of the items violated their terms of service or regulations- I forget exactly how they stated it.
Huh?
The items were a trigger pull gauge, a box of reloading bullets, a rifle stock and a gun screw kit.
I can't see where any of these are a problem.
I here you on that one! Odd that they won't ship such benign orders.

Makes you think is certainly something going on. Hate to be this way, but what has Obama done now to attack the 2A?
 
Here's the original email sent out by Defense Distributed. In it they clearly say that they discussed the shipping of the maker device with FedEx so the company knew exactly what and what it was for that they'd be handling. Keep in mind that this is just one side of the story and that FedEx and their legal advisors made a decision based on information that isn't being shared with us and that DD is a 2A advocacy organization first and foremost and a manufacturer second so they're practice is in making a point that regulating firearms is antiquated thinking.

My company Defense Distributed, a non-profit organized to expand your franchise under the Second Amendment, began selling a compact and powerful CNC machine in October of last year. This machine, called the Ghost Gunner, is notable in that its original design application is to mill the lower receiver of an AR-15 to completion from 80% manufacture, allowing a private individual to produce a quality, un-serialized AR in the comfort of home. He does not have to use hand tools or buy a much more expensive machine to create his rifle privately. The product is even more exceptional after recent regulations by the ATF attempting to gut this traditional activity.

In February, I began pursuing business-to-consumer fulfillment rates from Federal Express to ship my product because I was a member of their FedEx Advantage/NRA Business Alliance program. I understood that the company held itself out as catering to the firearms industry with special rates.

Two weeks ago FedEx, through my account executive, began demurring on the rates and expressing uncertainty as to the legal status of my product. I assured them there was no controversy and showed them legal memos from my GCA firm in DC and other memos and facts confirming that the product and its related activity are not regulated or restricted by the ATF or federal law.

Now FedEx has told me that they will NOT ship my product at all, and though they will not give me a reason in writing, they have told Wired.com that it is because my machine allows an individual to make a gun.

I will find another way to ship the machine. I emailed today because I feel you should know that FedEx is uncomfortable with the constitutionally protected right to make a rifle free from government surveillance. They may cater to the firearms industry, but they have a specific antipathy to the non-commercial acquisition of firearms.

crw
 
It must be a very small cnc mill to be carried by Fedex. I have been in the machining industry for all of my adult life and I have never seen a decent cnc mill that could be sent by Fedex. Most are sent by common carrier and I would venture that he could have his sent by common carrier with little to no hassle. Generally one phone call is all it would take.

I have seen some small cnc mills at community colleges and vo-tech schools so that programming and basic milling classes could be taught but they were still a few hundred pounds each.
 
I sold a collectible bayonet to a gentleman in Spain. It was a sword bayonet basically.

Went to the post office and they denied my wife because she wrote "Bayonet" on the customs form. I guess Spain has a law against the importation of "weapons or parts of weapons". I assumed that to mean firearms but the folks at the post office were not real keen on interpretation.

Not to be outfoxed, I went back, to a different post office and filled out the form "Antique Collectible Militaria".

Senor Rossignol-Ruis was most pleased with his shipment!
 
It must be a very small cnc mill to be carried by Fedex. I have been in the machining industry for all of my adult life and I have never seen a decent cnc mill that could be sent by Fedex. Most are sent by common carrier and I would venture that he could have his sent by common carrier with little to no hassle. Generally one phone call is all it would take.

I have seen some small cnc mills at community colleges and vo-tech schools so that programming and basic milling classes could be taught but they were still a few hundred pounds each.
This is my thought too. A large item like a mill, especially a heavy item, usually ships freight. What baffles me is that Fedex does have a freight service. With their new rules on shipping ammo I am seriously considering a switch to UPS.
 
Until other shipping companies jump on the stupid bandwagon. Then what, drive cross country to pick it up?

I know. The first rain drop falls and prognosticators now suggest the sky is falling.

There are a bunch of shipping companies. Let me know when all the others stop.

DD has 1, ONE problem and they make it into a free publicity media event. They aren't exactly working to change shipping laws or even suggesting it should be done. They are just milking the system for publicity. Nothing wrong with that, but it is helpful to understand what is going on.

Will they be sending out emails and making media announcements to celebrate whatever other company(ies) will ship?
 
Wired was able to get a cogent statement from FedEx on this.

http://www.wired.com/2015/02/fedex-mill-untraceable-firearms/ said:
The new generation of “maker” tools like 3-D printers and milling machines promises to let anyone make virtually anything—from prosthetic limbs to firearms—in the privacy and convenience of his or her own home. But first, those tools have to get to customers’ homes. That’s going to be difficult for at least one new machine with the potential to make homemade firearms, because FedEx is refusing to deliver it.

Last week FedEx told firearm-access nonprofit Defense Distributed that the company refuses to ship the group’s new tool, a computer controlled (CNC) mill known as the Ghost Gunner. Defense Distributed has marketed its one-foot-cubed $1,500 machine, which allows anyone to automatically carve aluminum objects from digital designs, as an affordable, private way to make an AR-15 rifle body without a serial number. Add in off-the-shelf parts that can be ordered online, and the Ghost Gunner would allow anyone to create one of the DIY, untraceable, semi-automatic firearms sometimes known as “ghost guns.”

...

“This device is capable of manufacturing firearms, and potentially by private individuals,” FedEx spokesperson Scott Fiedler wrote in a statement. “We are uncertain at this time whether this device is a regulated commodity by local, state or federal governments. As such, to ensure we comply with the applicable law and regulations, FedEx declined to ship this device until we know more about how it will be regulated.”
...

Defense Distributed’s founder Cody Wilson argues that rather than a legal ambiguity, FedEx is instead facing up to the political gray area of enabling the sale of new, easily accessible tools that can make anything—including deadly weapons. “They’re acting like this is legal when in fact it’s the expression of a political preference,” says Wilson. “The artifact that they’re shipping is a CNC mill. There’s nothing about it that is specifically related to firearms except the hocus pocus of the marketing.”

...

FedEx’s decision seems to be another test case for the new, politically fraught era of powerful, general purpose consumer manufacturing machines. Just as personal computers can be used for everything from biological research to malicious hacking, 3-D printers and CNC mills will also enable plenty of dangerous objects to be made along with garden gnomes and gadget prototypes.

The Ghost Gunner is technically a multipurpose milling machine that could make a variety of metal objects. But it’s not marketed for making garden gnomes; Everything from the machine’s name to a marketing video showing it being used to make an serial-numberless AR-15 makes clear that the device’s primary purpose is manufacturing guns. “This is a way to jab at the bleeding hearts of these total statists,” Wilson told WIRED in October. “It’s about humiliating the power that wants to humiliate you.”

Gun enthusiasts have been legally milling their own AR-15 lower receivers—the regulated body of the gun—for years using more expensive tools, and more recently 3-D printing them in plastic. A California bill to outlaw the home manufacture of unserialized firearms was vetoed by the state’s governor, Jerry Brown, who wrote in his veto letter that he “can’t see how adding a serial number to a homemade gun would significantly advance public safety.”

Of course, the controversy around Defense Distributed is far more than legal; plenty of other companies have opted to keep their distance. Indiegogo booted the group’s initial fundraiser off the site in 2012. And 3-D printer maker Stratasys refused to continue renting a printer to the group after learning that its machine was being used to make gun components.

FedEx seems to be joining the same club of companies trying to avoid any part in digital DIY gunsmithing. But as more tools like 3-D printers and CNC mills find their way into Americans’ homes, they may have to face the reality that those devices can also create deadly weapons, says UCLA’s Winkler. “It’s going to be very hard to get people to stop using these same devices to make firearms,” he says. “To a certain extent, FedEx will have to get used to shipping gun-making machines.”
 
I'm wondering what is going on with Fedex and or the USPS.
Monday I placed an order with Natchez and in checkout I was informed I could not have the items shipped by Fedex SmartPost since one or more of the items violated their terms of service or regulations- I forget exactly how they stated it.
Huh?
The items were a trigger pull gauge, a box of reloading bullets, a rifle stock and a gun screw kit.
I can't see where any of these are a problem.

Fedex SmartPost and UPS Surepost use the Post Office for final delivery. It is also an economy shipping method with a lower cost but more restrictions. I wouldn't be surprised if the bullets were the problem, most likely considered a Hazmat. There is also the possibility that Natchez simple had a item coded wrong.
 
Let me see if I have this straight. FedEx claims to be uncertain of applicable state and federal laws. So in reality that means they are lying through their teeth and they are now part of the anti-second ammendment campaign. Did I get that right?
 
Now I'm sure it's a publicity stunt - why would anyone check with Fedex to ship tools unless they wanted a problem?

Fedex has no problem shipping actual firearms, after all. In fact, my 'mom & pop' FFL only found out last month that they weren't supposed to ship firearms using Fedex ground, which they've been using for 14 years - and they only found out because she said "I've got some more guns to ship today" to the person behind the counter. They told her that it wasn't illegal to do so, it was just against Fedex policy.

Then again, the two times I've had to send a gun back to the manufacturer for repair, I was given a Fedex ground label to use and it was shipped Fedex ground back to me.:rolleyes:
 
Bullets (lead projectiles) aren't DOT hazardous material.

Loaded ammunition is an exempt ORMD.
 
Post# 7 in reference to Natchez disallowing Fedex SmartPost on my order-

So I went back and added each item I ordered to the cart one at a time.
Bullets-check
Trigger Pull Gauge-check
Gun Screw Kit-check

It is the rifle stock that makes SmartPost unavailable!
 
“This device is capable of manufacturing firearms, and potentially by private individuals,” FedEx spokesperson Scott Fiedler wrote in a statement. “We are uncertain at this time whether this device is a regulated commodity by local, state or federal governments. As such, to ensure we comply with the applicable law and regulations, FedEx declined to ship this device until we know more about how it will be regulated.”
A bigger bunch of nonsense has never been heard.
 
Post# 7 in reference to Natchez disallowing Fedex SmartPost on my order-

So I went back and added each item I ordered to the cart one at a time.
Bullets-check
Trigger Pull Gauge-check
Gun Screw Kit-check

It is the rifle stock that makes SmartPost unavailable!

That is very odd and makes me believe this is just a problem with the way Natchez has coded available shipping methods that item.
 
I don't see what the big deal is. CNCs and the availability to make lowers our of them has been around a long long time. Hell, my dad has had a CNC in his basement for like 8 years. He makes small telescope parts with it. This is not new technology. Has FedEx been under a rock or something?
 
Post# 7 in reference to Natchez disallowing Fedex SmartPost on my order-

So I went back and added each item I ordered to the cart one at a time.
Bullets-check
Trigger Pull Gauge-check
Gun Screw Kit-check

It is the rifle stock that makes SmartPost unavailable!
That is very odd and makes me believe this is just a problem with the way Natchez has coded available shipping methods that item.
Unless they have a size restriction.
According to the Fedex site SmartPost has a maximum length and girth of 130 inches, so doesn't appear size is the issue....and the order is coming regular Fedex so doesn't appear they are the problem.....must be either Natchez or the USPS :confused:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top