FFL says that it is illegal for private to send gun in mail.

[Orion8472]

My local FFL states that it is NOT legal for a person to send their firearm through the mail. Is this true [for example, a pistol in a USPS Flat Rate box, sent to an FFL]?

My brother asked the question of UPS, and they said that a gun, to be sent, would have to have its firing pin removed. What would that serve? It isn't like someone couldn't steal it and get a firing pin put in.

Are these things just ridiculous ways to make things harder on gun owners?

 

[General Geoff]

is this pistol being sent intrastate or interstate?

 

[Mudinyeri]

From GunBroker's Firearms Shipping Guide

Shipment by Licensed Persons
Any shipper who has a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is considered to be a 'licensed person'. This section contains information on how licensed persons can ship firearms. If you do not have an FFL, please see the previous section of this page for shipping instructions.

Since licensed persons are responsible for knowing the law, we are going to assume that you already understand the CGA and know the applicable Federal, state, and local laws.

Notes on specific shippers:

US Mail: Licensed persons can ship a rifle, shotguns, or handguns by US Mail. In fact, we suggest that you use the USPS as it is now the most cost-effective way to ship a handgun. To ship a rifle or shotgun, you need only inform the Post Office that the package contains a firearm. A licensed manufacturer, dealer, or importer can ship a handgun via the US Post Office if the licensed dealer fills out a US Post Office Form PS 1508 and files it with the local Post Office branch where the handgun is to be shipped. You can search the US Post Office Postal Explorer site for specific USPS regulations regarding firearms and ammunition.

Shipment by Unlicensed Persons
Any shipper who does not have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is considered to be an 'unlicensed person'. This section contains information on how unlicensed persons can ship firearms. If you have an FFL, please skip to the next section for shipping suggestions.

The most important thing to know is that you must only ship guns to a licensed dealer. If the buyer is not a licensed dealer, he will have to make arrangements to ship the item to a dealer in his state.

Before you ship a gun, the buyer must fax or mail you a copy of the dealer's signed FFL license. You can only ship the gun to the address on the license. You must inform the carrier that the package contains a firearm. Of course, the firearm cannot be shipped loaded; ammunition may not be shipped in the same box. You should take the copy of the signed FFL with you when you take the item to be shipped in case the shipper wishes to see it.

Notes on specific shippers:

US Mail: An unlicensed person can ship a rifle or shotgun by US Mail. Unlicensed persons cannot ship a handgun by US Mail. Postal regulations allow the Post Office to open your package for inspection. Ammunition cannot be shipped by US Mail. You can search the US Post Office Postal Explorer site for specific USPS regulations regarding firearms and ammunition.

FedEx: FedEx will only ship firearms via their Priority Overnight service. Ammunition must be shipped as dangerous goods.

FedEx Ground: FedEx Ground will transport and deliver firearms (excluding handguns) as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S. Ammunition must be shipped as dangerous goods.

UPS: UPS will accept handgun shipments by Next Day Air only. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped by UPS ground service. UPS will accept shipments of ammunition. Most other shippers will no longer accept firearm shipments. Airborne and Roadway have specifically prohibited firearm shipments.

 

[CoRoMo]

Are these things just ridiculous ways to make things harder on gun owners?

Is there really any doubt?

Here's the answer to your first question.: http://www.thegunzone.com/ship-guns.html

Also:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-usps
Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

 

[CraigC]

A non-FFL holder can not use the US Mail for handguns, but licensees can.

The UPS fool that said the firing pin must be removed is just wrong. Any firearm can be shipped from an individual to a licensee by UPS or FedEx but handguns must be sent overnight by company policy (not law). Contrary to popular belief, it is NOT necessary by law to notify the shipper that the package contains a firearm if being shipped to a licensee but it is company policy. Disassembly does not circumvent or satisfy any rules or laws. The serial numbered receiver IS the firearm regardless of what is attached to it.

 

[dogtown tom]

It is Thursday, so we do need to start another thread on shipping guns

Orion8472 My local FFL states that it is NOT legal for a person to send their firearm through the mail. Is this true [for example, a pistol in a USPS Flat Rate box, sent to an FFL]?

My brother asked the question of UPS, and they said that a gun, to be sent, would have to have its firing pin removed. What would that serve? It isn't like someone couldn't steal it and get a firing pin put in.

Are these things just ridiculous ways to make things harder on gun owners?

It is perfectly legal for anyone to mail a rifle or shotgun through the USPS. But.........USPS requlations prohibit anyone other than a licensed firearms dealer or manufacturer from mailing a handgun.

USPS restrictions on mailing firearms are here:http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1065404

UPS Firearms policy does not require removal of the firing pin.
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html?srch_pos=3&srch_phr=handgun


While we're at it here's FedEx Firearms policy:
http://www.fedex.com/us/services/pdf/SG_TermsCond_US_2009.pdf

 

[brboyer]

is this pistol being sent intrastate or interstate?

Does not matter.

 

[General Geoff]

Does not matter.

Yes, it does.

 

[Canuck-IL]

Contrary to popular belief, it is NOT necessary by law to notify the shipper that the package contains a firearm if being shipped to a licensee but it is company policy.

Wrong ... FAQ from BATF website
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-carrier
Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
/B

 

[brboyer]

Yes, it does.

A non-licensee may not ship a handgun via the USPS, period!

 

[dogtown tom]

CraigC A non-FFL holder can not use the US Mail for handguns, but licensees can.

Not exactly.

Only "licensed dealers and manufacturers" can mail handguns through the USPS. (along with a few LE exceptions)

The 03FFL, "Collector of Curios & Relics", while they are a bona fide "licensee"- they ARE NOT allowed to mail handguns or receive handguns through the USPS.




.

 

[General Geoff]

A non-licensee may not ship a handgun via the USPS, period!

OP was not concerned only with USPS, but also with a private carrier (UPS).

 

[dogtown tom]

Canuck-IL:...Wrong ... FAQ from BATF website
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unli...rearms-carrier
Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

Nope, you AND the ATF FAQ are wrong.
Read the citations from the US Code at the bottom of that FAQ answer.


This stuff gets covered five times a month at least.







.

 

[brboyer]

Wrong ... FAQ from BATF website
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-carrier
Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
/B

This is why ine should read the actual law, not just the FAQ's:
18USC922(e)
It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped. . .

 

[wishin]

OP was not concerned only with USPS, but also with a private carrier (UPS).

My local FFL states that it is NOT legal for a person to send their firearm through the mail.

The OP probably meant "mail" in the general sense and "firearm" as all inclusive.

 

[Orion8472]

The question was about USPS, but shipping through UPS is different. I've done that before. Uber expensive.

 

[EOD Guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Geoff View Post
Yes, it does.
A non-licensee may not ship a handgun via the USPS, period!

Generally true, but there are some, very limited, exceptions.

 

[CraigC]

Wrong ... FAQ from BATF website

As was stated, the FAQ is misleading at best. Read the actual statute.

Only "licensed dealers and manufacturers" can mail handguns through the USPS.

I wasn't referring to C&R holders but maybe should've specified.

 

[fatelk]

I don't mean to hijack, but I'm curious about something closely related.

A friend of mine tried to mail his own rifle to himself in another state. He was flying and didn't want to check it. He was told by several folks that it was common to mail a gun to yourself. When he took it to UPS, though, they flatly refused, told him it was illegal, and were rather rude.

A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State.

Does this indicate it's OK to mail a rifle to yourself in another state?

 

[Canuck-IL]

Wrong ... FAQ from BATF website

As was stated, the FAQ is misleading at best. Read the actual statute.

Call the BATF and ask them to interpret ... they land on the side of "you must declare."
/B

 

[nalioth]

fatelk, when dealing with FedUPS, it's wise to take a copy of their rules and be prepared to speak to management.

It is legal to mail/ship firearms to yourself for any lawful purpose.

 

[Phydeaux642]

If you are going to ship a handgun, since you can't use the USPS, you may as well pay an FFL to do it because FedEx and UPS really stick it to you with their shipping costs. Two of the FFLs in my area charge $55 to ship a handgun but it would have cost me closer to $80 the last time that I checked into it. What a racket.

 

[wgsigs]

Generally true, but there are some, very limited, exceptions.

OK I'm curious. What are those limited exceptions?

 

[GonHuntin]

Call the BATF and ask them to interpret ... they land on the side of "you must declare."
/B

BATF interpretation does not trump LAW!

The LAW is very clear, you DO NOT have to declare if the firearm is being shipped to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors.....

 

[dogtown tom]

Canuck-IL:...Call the BATF and ask them to interpret ... they land on the side of "you must declare."

Never do this.

Verbal "interpretations" from ATF (or IRS, USPS, etc) are worth the paper they are printed on.
Those that rely on verbal opinions are skating on thin ice. If that verbal opinion is in error you lose.

No ATF phone call is needed when the actual Federal law is cited. If you can read and understand plain English then you can read and understand that the ATF FAQ answer leaves out some important information.

And then there is this:

.