Fiasco Mitigation Advice

[LRDGCO]

So, here's the situation: I have a 'school parent friend' who is a foody and very interested in game. But he is not a hunter or a shooter. He claims to have "gone shooting several times" but, as far as can tell, it's all been clays and planted birds. Anyway, way back in September, at his urging, I set up a hog hunt with another acquaintance in Gonzales County TX. We will be part of a group of about 8 people, the others being folks that I don't know.

My plan was to have him shoot several times before we left to ensure that he was, at a minimum, familiar with the firearm I planned for him to use, a Marlin 30-30 with an aperture ghost ring set up. He doesn't want to hunt at night, so he will only be doing walk-up hunting in the scrub during the day.

Unfortunately, he has been unavailable the many times that I have attempted to get him out to the range to shoot. It would now appear that the best I can hope for is one outing to the indoor range before we go. At this point, my main interest is ensuring that he understands basic firearms safety. And I am questioning whether the Marlin is a good choice. I have an H&R single shot chambered in 454 Casull with a 4x shotgun scope on it. Flat nose 300 grs hard cast over H110 make for a very effective choice with hogs and the single shot break-action gives me more certainty about ensuring firearms safety in the limited time it will appear is now available.

So, I'm trying to balance things. 1) I want to maximize safety 2) I want to ensure the guy gets a hog. The Marlin is just about ideal on walking up hogs, but with no time on it, I'm dubious about mastery of peep sights. The 454 will put down hogs, but will single shot be too limiting? I'm not going to scope the Marlin, so that is off the table. Last consideration is a Benelli Nova pump 12ga that is minute of hog accurate out to 50 yards with Brenekke hard cast slugs and also has peep and post sights.

Constructive advice sought.

 

[Patocazador]

This is not really constructive advice. It seems he is unwilling to meet to familiarize himself with your firearm, thus, he may be backing out of the deal. My advice is to find another friend or just leave him at home. Things only seem to get worse when a situation like this presents itself.

 

[Varminterror]

If they are a grown adult, then the illusion of safety driven by a single shot vs. a levergun is a fallacy.

I wouldn’t handicap any newbie with peep sights, however. It’s far easier to “drop in” to a scope than a set of peeps.

Depending upon your type of hog hunting, a single shot in the hands of a newbie might be a liability. I’d hate for him to get torn up because he has a single serving bang stick when the first shot doesn’t end the interaction fast enough, and a quick follow up at “can’t miss” distance might have saved them from stitches in their thigh, or worse.

So personally, I’d take the time to mount the telescopic optic to the Marlin and keep him close (as a PH or RSO) when on your hunt.

 

[J-Bar]

“I will not hunt with you nor will I loan you a firearm until you satisfy me that you can handle a firearm safely.” You owe it to him, to yourself, and your other companions to tell him this. Consider what will happen if he is involved in an accident. Friendship has nothing to do with it.

 

[MEHavey]

We will be part of a group of about 8 people, the others being folks that I don't know.

I will not hunt with you nor will I loan you a firearm until you satisfy me that you can handle a firearm safely.”

LRDGCO: Given your situation -- per your own quote -- J-Bar's response is your only possible answer.
Don't even consider caving to anything less.
Way too much at stake.



.

 

[straightshooterjake]

“I will not hunt with you nor will I loan you a firearm until you satisfy me that you can handle a firearm safely.” You owe it to him, to yourself, and your other companions to tell him this. Consider what will happen if he is involved in an accident. Friendship has nothing to do with it.

I strongly agree with this, but I would go a little further. The ability to handle a firearm safely is the minimum standard to use a firearm at a range without close supervision. This is the standard for paper targets and other recreation. For hunting, I believe the standard needs to be handling the firearm safely and effectively. The standard for "effectively" will depend on the situation, but there needs to be a demonstrated ability that the person can consistently make an ethical shot. While it is possible that an inexperienced shooter would achieve this standard after one good lesson, it seems unlikely.

 

[redneck]

The last time someone stuck a gun in my face, it was a single shot 20 gauge, and it didn't make me feel any better knowing they could only shoot me once. I was a on a deer drive at an uncle's farm and it was a neighbor kid who had been invited.

If I remember right, the H&R guns require you to lower the hammer with your thumb to unload them? I think I'd rather give him the marlin where he can just work the lever til its empty.

If he is really on top of things at the indoor range, I would still take him, but if he won't even show up for that I'd have a hard time taking him. Maybe you "share" a rifle, and he doesn't carry it until a shot presents itself. I know walking up on pigs isn't necessarily going to give you much time, but in the event you can get the drop on one, you could hand him the rifle and let him chamber a round and take the shot when you are satisfied it is a safe situation.

 

[LRDGCO]

So, last night, I had the hard word with him, and explained that without me being certain of his safety and proficiency, he wasn't going hunting.

To my surprise, he took it pretty well and agreed to 4 hours on the outdoor range Sunday. I also sent him the link to the IHEA on-line course and asked him to go through it. I'll work with him with the Marlin and see how it goes. I don't scope lever guns.

Thanks for egging me on to have the hard word.

 

[Patocazador]

To my surprise, he took it pretty well and agreed to 4 hours on the outdoor range Sunday.

If he makes an excuse or doesn't show on Sunday, that should let you know he isn't serious about going. Conversely, if he shows up with the right attitude, you will have a better hunt.

 

[Choctaw]

Also, depending upon his age he will need to get his hunter's education certificate before purchasing a hunting license in Texas.

 

[HB]

his is not really constructive advice. It seems he is unwilling to meet to familiarize himself with your firearm, thus, he may be backing out of the deal. My advice is to find another friend or just leave him at home. Things only seem to get worse when a situation like this presents itself.

Thats my thought as well. I have a friend from college like this. He got his hunter ed but all the times I ask him to shoot or scout he wont go. So he wont be hunting with me.

At the end of the day, there is no room for negotiation with safety

 

[BigBore44]

Even if he does great at the indoor range, you need to go with him when he’s hunting. You need to be his “fail safe” device when he’s too excited to think correctly. He’s new. 4 hours at an indoor range won’t change that.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I agree, I don't think the single shot is limiting, since this is his first big-game hunt, I doubt a second shot from him with the Marlin is going to happen... excitement of the moment, don't ya know... keeping things simple, especially for Nickie Newguy is always a good idea. I also agree if he isn't going to assure you of his safely handling the firearm then I think that's a recipe for a bad and sad situation.

On the other hand, IF you take Patocazador's advice...., and get a new "foodie" friend, I will come on down, and I will be happy to use that single shot of yours in .454, or bring my own single shot along for the hunt.

LD

 

[buck460XVR]

We will be part of a group of about 8 people, the others being folks that I don't know.

While I applaud you effort to make sure the fella you asked is proficient enough to take a hog and has basic gun handling skills, the above statement would concern me just as much as my friend. My experience with hunting in a large group of folks I know nuttin' about has not always been a positive one and not one I would intentionally take someone with little or no hunting experience. Lot more to hunting in a large group as mentioned than just shooting the gun. There are ethics(altho I know for most there are no ethics when it comes to killing hogs), and camaraderie. Have the other 6 been told about the lack of skill and hunting experience of your friend? I know I would want to be. While an afternoon out in the back 40 isn't that big of deal, when folks pay big bucks for a pay to shoot hunt, they take any kind of challenge to their success and fun seriously. Most of the time I have found that new hunters do much better in a one on one scenario than within a big group where there may be unwanted criticism and comments made or undue pressure. This is especially true when one is talking about a group of strangers. While I have taken newbies on group hunts, it's with folks who I know are acceptable and happy to welcome someone new. Still, if the newbie shows some kind of safety issues or diminishes the hunt with some action, there is still sometimes resentment and hard feelings(like when the newbie peppers or comes close to peppering someone's dog or in their excitement, fills someone else's tag). Kudos to you for taking on this attempt, I hope it works out well for all involved.

 

[bihj]

If I were in your situation... You don,t show up for range sessions (until I feel comfortable with you handling a firearm near me), you won't go to the field.

 

[double bogey]

Also, depending upon his age he will need to get his hunter's education certificate before purchasing a hunting license in Texas.

No, you can buy the license without the safety cert. Seems like I see people getting tickets for hunting without the safety cert every time I am on a large dove hunt. I bought my grandson a license several years before he was old enough to do the course. I am old enough not to need one, but I have one I got in 1972.

 

[Choctaw]

I dunno Double Bogey, this is from the TPWD website:

Who Must Complete Hunter Education?
Every hunter (including out-of-state hunters) born on or after Sept. 2, 1971, must successfully complete a hunter education training course. Proof of certification or deferral is required to be on your person while hunting. Minimum age of certification is 9 years. Single-day in-person course cost is $15. persons 17 years of age and older have the option of taking the course in person or online. the cost of an approved online course varies by provider. For information about various course options, call (800) 792-1112 or visit TPWD Hunter Education.

Age Requirements
Minimum age of hunter education certification is 9 years.

If you were born on or after Sept. 2, 1971, and you are:

• Under 9 years of age: You must be accompanied. Accompanied means: By a person (resident or non-resident) who is at least 17, who is licensed to hunt in Texas, who has passed hunter education or is exempt (born before Sept. 2, 1971), and you must be within normal voice control.
• Age 9 through 16: You must successfully complete a hunter education course or be accompanied.
• Age 17 and over: You must successfully complete a hunter education course; or purchase a "Hunter Education Deferral" and be accompanied.
  • "Accompanied" means: by a person (resident or non-resident) who is at least 17, who is licensed to hunt in Texas, who has passed hunter education or is exempt (born before Sept. 2, 1971), and you must be within normal voice control.

 

[LRDGCO]

Good news. Sunday went well. It turns out that he shot a fair amount as a teenager (Boy Scouts), albeit all 22 lr. He was amenable, enthusiastic and appreciative of the need for good gun safety. He turned out to be pretty proficient with the Marlin and was minute of pig at 50 meters, at least on paper. I repeatedly explained the key points of gun safety, especially muzzle control while line hunting, and he was receptive. He had gone through the IHEA course. It went well. Hopefully all goes well next weekend in TX and he does his Hunter Ed course in Colorado at some point.

He is pre '71 DOB so does not need Hunter Ed for the Texas license.

 

[double bogey]

I'm sorry, I meant you must have the HE to hunt, but it isn't a requirement to buy the license.

 

[LRDGCO]

That turned out well. All went as expected. He was great on gun safety, shot three hogs, one of them a perfect shot on a crosser at round about 50 yards. He's hooked. Want's to buy a Marlin, do his hunter safety course, and asked when the next hunting season is! I was, as always, impressed with the 30-30 as a hog rifle. The 160 grs FTX I loaded were exceptionally effective on all three of his hogs, albeit all sows under 115 lbs, and on the 105 lbs boar I shot with it. Not sure how the 160 grs FTX would hold up to the really big fellows. I shot a 75 lbs sow and a 98 lbs sow with a 150 grs .308 Win Fusion and they were very effective.

I did not see the hog, so I cannot personally verify it, but allegedly another hunter shot a 780 lbs boar several days before we arrived and it took three rounds of 450 Bushmaster (250 grs FTX) from an AR to end forward motion. I would have liked to have seen that hog!