Desertdog
Member
Fighting back: A life-or-death decision
12:29 AM PST on Saturday, March 26, 2005
http://www.pe.com/cgi-bin/bi/gold_print.cgi
By RICHARD BROOKS / The Press-Enterprise
"This is a robbery," someone hollered, and liquor store owner Dan Lee grabbed a pistol from beneath his cash register.
An instant later, Lee found himself staring down the barrel of one robber's gun and at about the same time noticed another man climbing over the counter toward Lee's mother. The fight was on.
Lee shot them both and an accomplice who was standing near the door. One of the men died during the attempted take-over last May at Mount Vernon Liquor in Colton.
"There's not enough money in a liquor store to risk your life," says store owner Dan Lee, 26.
"He pretty much made the decision for me when he came over the counter at my mother and threatened her life," Lee said of the first man he shot.
After three recent robberies and three slayings of business owners and clerks in the San Bernardino Valley, Lee recommends that people in high-risk businesses such as convenience markets think about what they would do in a worst-case situation.
If they conclude they can kill in self-defense, Lee suggests they learn the law, get adequate firearms training and arm themselves.
Not all store owners and clerks feel they can shoot in self-defense. And experts warn that some people don't have the coordination to shoot accurately, a willingness to kill even in self-defense, or the commitment to maintain a high level of firearms training and practice.
Police have long cautioned the public that it is safest in all situations to comply with the demands of robbers and other violent criminals.
Lee agrees -- to a point.
"I would tell anyone to comply with the robbers. There's not enough money in a liquor store to risk your life," said Lee, who had studied the law and learned how to shoot while attending a police academy in preparation for a law enforcement career.
"But if (a robbery) is starting to 'go south' and you might not make it out of there: defend yourself," he said.
"When that guy (in front of his mother) jumped on top of the counter, I felt if he made it to our side, there was no way that any of us were going to live."
Recent Incidents
During the past four months, at least four shop owners or their clerks have been gunned down during three robberies:
Store owner Steven Hall, 53, and clerk Brian Gregorio, 25, were fatally wounded March 16 after complying with two robbers at Cee Vee's Liquor in Highland. On Wednesday, investigators arrested a man they say was the getaway driver but still are seeking two robbers.
Store clerk Gamila Boutros, 43, was wounded in the chest Jan. 9 after doing what was asked by two men during a holdup at the Sun Market in Colton. No arrests have been made.
Fifty-year-old clerk Sami Sayah, the father of four children, was fatally shot Nov. 13 during a robbery at a Valero gas station along the 3500 block of East Highland Avenue in San Bernardino. No arrests have been made.
"We have to do more to protect ourselves," Lee said.
But Randy Carroll, a former SWAT team member and sniper who is now police chief in Bellingham, Wash., cautions, "Some people cannot be proficient with handguns. They don't have the hand-eye coordination."
Retail employees, particularly, should think carefully before relying on a gun, with special consideration given to company or corporate policy, said Carroll, who co-chairs the International Chiefs of Police Association's private sector liaison committee.
For example, Circle K clerks are forbidden by company policy to carry a gun while on duty or have one in their store, said a spokeswoman at the corporation's West Coast headquarters in Corona.
Perhaps the most important question, Carroll said, is whether the person is prepared to kill.
"Some people will tell you no, they can't do it," Carroll said. "Some people will tell you yes, but when they get into the situation, they can't do it. And some will tell you yes, and ... they can psychologically withstand the tendency to run and actually stand and fight."
But there are no guarantees.
"There are situations where people never get the opportunity to utilize their skills," said Carroll. "They'll be killed outright. They won't have time to defend themselves."
Merchants React
After the recent killings, some in the retail business community in the San Bernardino Valley wonder who might be next.
"It could have been anyone over here," said Jr. Briggs, owner of Scrappy's Bargains, a family-operated thrift store in the same Highland shopping center as Cee Vee's Liquor. "It could have been my wife (who also works at Scrappy's), and she's seven-months pregnant."
Briggs said he still believes that complying with robbers' demands is the safest course of action. But he also said that shooting in self-defense seems to be a reasonable option in extreme circumstances.
"I think I would do it if there's no way out," he said.
In Norco, clerk Gene Gocsik has never been robbed during the 20 years he has worked at McGrueder's Liquor on River Road. Guns aren't part of his emergency plan.
"It's the type of thing you worry about when you look at the register late at night and see the cash," he said. "But we've always been instructed to move slowly and to do what the robber wants if it ever happens."
Since the last robbery at McGrueder's more than decade ago, "we don't keep a lot of cash in the register. We keep a safe and we don't do things like cash money orders where you need to have a lot of cash ready."
At his automobile smog-inspection business in San Bernardino, Sid Kumar also isn't ready to resort to guns, though it was at his family's Valero gas station that Sami Sayah was slain last November.
"If everyone starts carrying weapons, then there's more weapons out there. The more weapons out there, the more problems that's going to create," he said. "But ... if it happens at our shop again, I'd probably reconsider."
But Thomas Smith, paralyzed from the waist down from being shot during a robbery eight years ago at his Hemet hamburger stand, already has reconsidered. Smith and his wife were both wounded, though they followed the robbers' directions to lie on the floor.
Asked if he would do anything different now, he replied firmly, "I'd have a gun."
Staff writers Jamie Ayala and Paige Austin contributed to this story.
Reach Richard Brooks at (909) 806-3057 or [email protected]
12:29 AM PST on Saturday, March 26, 2005
http://www.pe.com/cgi-bin/bi/gold_print.cgi
By RICHARD BROOKS / The Press-Enterprise
"This is a robbery," someone hollered, and liquor store owner Dan Lee grabbed a pistol from beneath his cash register.
An instant later, Lee found himself staring down the barrel of one robber's gun and at about the same time noticed another man climbing over the counter toward Lee's mother. The fight was on.
Lee shot them both and an accomplice who was standing near the door. One of the men died during the attempted take-over last May at Mount Vernon Liquor in Colton.
"There's not enough money in a liquor store to risk your life," says store owner Dan Lee, 26.
"He pretty much made the decision for me when he came over the counter at my mother and threatened her life," Lee said of the first man he shot.
After three recent robberies and three slayings of business owners and clerks in the San Bernardino Valley, Lee recommends that people in high-risk businesses such as convenience markets think about what they would do in a worst-case situation.
If they conclude they can kill in self-defense, Lee suggests they learn the law, get adequate firearms training and arm themselves.
Not all store owners and clerks feel they can shoot in self-defense. And experts warn that some people don't have the coordination to shoot accurately, a willingness to kill even in self-defense, or the commitment to maintain a high level of firearms training and practice.
Police have long cautioned the public that it is safest in all situations to comply with the demands of robbers and other violent criminals.
Lee agrees -- to a point.
"I would tell anyone to comply with the robbers. There's not enough money in a liquor store to risk your life," said Lee, who had studied the law and learned how to shoot while attending a police academy in preparation for a law enforcement career.
"But if (a robbery) is starting to 'go south' and you might not make it out of there: defend yourself," he said.
"When that guy (in front of his mother) jumped on top of the counter, I felt if he made it to our side, there was no way that any of us were going to live."
Recent Incidents
During the past four months, at least four shop owners or their clerks have been gunned down during three robberies:
Store owner Steven Hall, 53, and clerk Brian Gregorio, 25, were fatally wounded March 16 after complying with two robbers at Cee Vee's Liquor in Highland. On Wednesday, investigators arrested a man they say was the getaway driver but still are seeking two robbers.
Store clerk Gamila Boutros, 43, was wounded in the chest Jan. 9 after doing what was asked by two men during a holdup at the Sun Market in Colton. No arrests have been made.
Fifty-year-old clerk Sami Sayah, the father of four children, was fatally shot Nov. 13 during a robbery at a Valero gas station along the 3500 block of East Highland Avenue in San Bernardino. No arrests have been made.
"We have to do more to protect ourselves," Lee said.
But Randy Carroll, a former SWAT team member and sniper who is now police chief in Bellingham, Wash., cautions, "Some people cannot be proficient with handguns. They don't have the hand-eye coordination."
Retail employees, particularly, should think carefully before relying on a gun, with special consideration given to company or corporate policy, said Carroll, who co-chairs the International Chiefs of Police Association's private sector liaison committee.
For example, Circle K clerks are forbidden by company policy to carry a gun while on duty or have one in their store, said a spokeswoman at the corporation's West Coast headquarters in Corona.
Perhaps the most important question, Carroll said, is whether the person is prepared to kill.
"Some people will tell you no, they can't do it," Carroll said. "Some people will tell you yes, but when they get into the situation, they can't do it. And some will tell you yes, and ... they can psychologically withstand the tendency to run and actually stand and fight."
But there are no guarantees.
"There are situations where people never get the opportunity to utilize their skills," said Carroll. "They'll be killed outright. They won't have time to defend themselves."
Merchants React
After the recent killings, some in the retail business community in the San Bernardino Valley wonder who might be next.
"It could have been anyone over here," said Jr. Briggs, owner of Scrappy's Bargains, a family-operated thrift store in the same Highland shopping center as Cee Vee's Liquor. "It could have been my wife (who also works at Scrappy's), and she's seven-months pregnant."
Briggs said he still believes that complying with robbers' demands is the safest course of action. But he also said that shooting in self-defense seems to be a reasonable option in extreme circumstances.
"I think I would do it if there's no way out," he said.
In Norco, clerk Gene Gocsik has never been robbed during the 20 years he has worked at McGrueder's Liquor on River Road. Guns aren't part of his emergency plan.
"It's the type of thing you worry about when you look at the register late at night and see the cash," he said. "But we've always been instructed to move slowly and to do what the robber wants if it ever happens."
Since the last robbery at McGrueder's more than decade ago, "we don't keep a lot of cash in the register. We keep a safe and we don't do things like cash money orders where you need to have a lot of cash ready."
At his automobile smog-inspection business in San Bernardino, Sid Kumar also isn't ready to resort to guns, though it was at his family's Valero gas station that Sami Sayah was slain last November.
"If everyone starts carrying weapons, then there's more weapons out there. The more weapons out there, the more problems that's going to create," he said. "But ... if it happens at our shop again, I'd probably reconsider."
But Thomas Smith, paralyzed from the waist down from being shot during a robbery eight years ago at his Hemet hamburger stand, already has reconsidered. Smith and his wife were both wounded, though they followed the robbers' directions to lie on the floor.
Asked if he would do anything different now, he replied firmly, "I'd have a gun."
Staff writers Jamie Ayala and Paige Austin contributed to this story.
Reach Richard Brooks at (909) 806-3057 or [email protected]
