Finally Shot my NEW 686

[Werewolf]

Well - I finally got to take my new 5" barrel S&W M686 out to the range this weekend. Having been an auto type guy for the past 30 years firing my very first modern style revolver was an eye opener indeed.

I've always thought that a revolver was inherently more accurate than an auto-pistol. If that is true (and I still believe it is) it definitely is not true for me.

I paste up paper plates for targets at 10 and 25 yards. I'll put 6 to 8 of them on a back board which permits shooting for accuracy and rapid switch between targets. With an auto pistol (Sig P220, CZ 75B SA .40, CZ 75B 9mm) I have no trouble putting full mags in a 4" circle at 10 yards and keeping all shots on the plate at 25. I couldn't do that with the 686 at all Sunday.

The .38's out of it felt like I was firing a .22 (very little recoil at all - 40 oz gun). If I concentrated I could put all 7 rounds on the plate but they were all over the place. Shooting .357's (1st time ever for that cartridge) I got similar results. The recoil on the .357 was considerably more than the recoil on my autos and I still put all 7 on the plate just lousy grouping so I don't think recoil is the cause of that.

I'm thinking that the grip may be the problem. I am right handed and shoot right handed. I can't seem to find a good place to put my right thumb. With .38's there was no problem but with the .357's the upper part of the grip cut into the soft spot at the base of my thumb (I've got really short fingers and thumb). Maybe a different grip set would help. Any recommendations along those lines.

Is there something different about shooting a revolver from an auto pistol I don't know about and should? :banghead:

Comments? Suggestions? Flames?

Oh and while I was out there another shooter let me shoot his S&W M629 (.44 Mag) with full loaded .44Mag cartridges. Whoaa! I'm gettin' me one of those even though my elbow hurt a bit after firing just six of those babies.

 

[mhdishere]

I've got a 686 that shoots a whole lot better than I can, so unless there's something wrong with your particular gun it's probably got something to do with the way you're shooting or holding. You might want to have someone who's good with a DA revolver put a couple cylinders full thru it, if he/she gets it to group you can be sure it's you and not the gun.

First, see if you're flinching especially with the 357 rounds. Load five rounds, give the cylinder a spin and close it without looking. Shoot six times, on the one where you get a click instead of a bang see if the gun moves, or better still have someone else watch you. You might also be moving while you pull thru the DA pull, it takes some practice to keep the sites where you want them for that long pull. Obviously I'm assuming you're shooting DA and not SA.

I've got big hands, so I like the wooden mag-grips on my 686 and 617. For double action I tend to lock my thumb down over my middle finger and keep a firm, steady grip. Make sure the grip doesn't shift in your hand when you fire, especially with the heavy loads. You may want to try some different grips. Look for something that fills in the area behind the trigger guard, that'll keep the gun from shifting.

I know I hate the orange-insert front site and usually blacken it with a magic-marker. Once of these days I might have it changed to a partridge like my 617 has.

I'm not an auto person myself, so I don't know the specifics of your autos, but if they're DA/SA pistols you may be anticipating the switch from DA to SA, your revolver obviously doesn't do that.

Hope this helps!

 

[Ala Dan]

Congrat's on your selection of a very fine handgun; as the
S&W 686 is capeable of extremely fine accuracy. All guns
take a little gett'in use to; and I think this is true in your
case as well? I own the same weapon in the 6" format,
and all I've done to it was install a WOLFF spring kit, with
the 13 lb. trigger recoil spring. This improved the double
action tremendously; and aided it target acqusition.

Enjoy~

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Plinkerton]

I have a 4" 686, am not really the greatest or most experienced shooter, and I can get great groups with mine.

I had some trouble in the beginning, especially with the trigger pull. I just sit around and dry fire with snapcaps all the time, and it has really smoothed out the trigger. I can also consistently pull the trigger DA now, without moving the gun at all. I have found it to be a MUCH more accurate gun than I am, and probably will be for a while.

From shooting my friends 1911, there are definitely some differences in feeling between autos and revolvers. I am actually getting some new grips today, that will hopefully fill up my hand a little better.

I'm sure you'll get used to it. I always shoot .357's in mine, as .38's have gotten much too boring, because of the .22-like recoil. I can consistantly hit clays at 50 yards now, within a couple shots, and it's FUN.

Have fun!

 

[Koveras]

Werewolf,

I shoot revolvers almost exclusively and I had the same problem with my 5" 686. For me, it was the V-notch rear sight. I couldn't get a consistent sight picture from shot to shot. I replaced it with a Millett white outline rear sight and am now a very happy camper. I did have to shorten the mounting screw slightly as it was impacting against the cylinder during recoil.

You might also want to consider the Hogue overmolded grip. I notice you too are from Oklahoma, so Outdoor America in OKC carries them for < $15.

 

[Werewolf]

Koveras,
You may have a point about the rear sight. I was having difficulty figuring out where exactly to put that bright red dot in the V.

I will check out the grips you recommend at Outdooramerica. I sometimes go there at lunch when I don't have anything else to do.

Quick question (dumb)...

If I remove the whole rear sight does that expose the drilled and tapped holes for mounting a rail I could put a red dot on? The S&W manual says the 5" model 686 is drilled and tapped for a pistol scope but I don't see it.

 

[Plinkerton]

If I remove the whole rear sight does that expose the drilled and tapped holes for mounting a rail I could put a red dot on?

I'm pretty sure it does. If you open the cylinder, and look at the top strap from underneath, you can see the screw holes, and there is an extra one I think.

 

[Koveras]

Yes, the holes for scope mounting are underneath the rear sight.

Here is a kinda lousy photo of the sight picture with the Millett installed:

 

[Plinkerton]

Aren't you supposed to focus on the front sight?

On my 686, I have the standard red ramp, so it pretty much lines up perfectly. I'm sure a Hi-Viz would definitely be easier to see most of the time though...

 

[L-Frame]

I shoot almost exclusively revolvers while those I shoot with tend to shoot almost exclusively 1911s. On the somewhat rare times that they (2 guys) shoot my 686's they always have difficulty grouping and it is always trigger control. The very short, light trigger of a good 1911 does not require the control/ rhythym, whatever you want to call it, that a revolver does. I always have to remind them to slow down on their pull until they find that rhythym. After awhile, they slow down, stop jerking it, and do just fine. It's weird but unless I practice awhile, I group better shooting double action than single. It's all about what you're comfortable with.

 

[rjk2475]

when i first got my 686(in '92), my groups went up-down-up-down. i realized at times i saw the top of the red ramp, at others i saw the top of the ss part of the fr sight. i had a good smith remove the factory sight and install a patridge sight. after removing the slippery wood grips for the hogue, my shooting improved 1500%

 

[Majic]

There is a decided difference in shooting a semi-auto compared to a revolver. It's usually a combination of grip and trigger control that gets most people trying to transition between the two.

 

[OH25shooter]

Yesterday at the range I fired 150 rds through my 6" 686. Only 7 rds were outside the 10"center circle. Distance was from 15-75 feet. With my 9mm auto, the pattern widens. Not much, but it does. To answer your question. In my case, the 686 is a bull barrel and is heavier than my P99. It doesn't jump around as much from the aiming point. Also, I tend to shoot alittle faster with the auto compared to a revolver. My grip, stance and trigger pull is the same, so I believe it's the weight of the handgun. So, assuming you have a clear sight picture with your guns, maybe it is the weight difference.

 

[SnWnMe]

When I grip my revos 1911 style (as high up asI could go), the "horns" of the stocks dig into the base of my right thumb. I also don't shoot as well as when I grip the gun a little lower. Spend a bit more time with the 686 and try a different grip maybe?

 

[YodaVader]

I assume you were firing the revolver in the double action mode? A 12 pound (approx) long trigger pull will take some getting used to. Especially after years shooting autos with a lighter shorter trigger pull. Does not mean the revolver is not accurate. To become a very good at shooting a double action revolver takes practice , a lot of practice. I will be the first to admit that my double action skills are not that great. I also use an auto for my defensive handgun.

When testing absolute accuracy my own 686 has proven to be more accurate than any centerfire auto pistol I have ever owned.

 

[Werewolf]

I assume you were firing the revolver in the double action mode?

NO! SA mode. I fired a few shots in DA but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn that way. In SA I could keep all my shots on a paper plate but compared to my autos that just isn't good enough.

Based on what everyone's said here I believe the problem is:

1) The wooden grips just don't fit me well - I'll get another set and see if that helps. I've got small hands so I might have trouble getting a set of grips that fit.

2) The fibre optic sight is very bright - I've just got to decide where I'm going to consistently rest the dot in the V of the rear sight and practice doing it.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions guys. Mucho appreciated...

 

[L-Frame]

Werewolf,

Do yourself a favor. I know it's hard but swallow your pride for awile and work on that double action shooting. Shooting double action revolvers is an acquired taste (kind of like wine). For a really good 1911 shooter it can be very frustrating not shooting up to your usual standards. Start slowly with the target in close. Be real slow and smooth on the double action trigger. Be patient. Speed will come but don't sacrifice speed for trigger control. Lengthen the distance as you feel comfortable.

Once you get the hang of it, ( rhythym is probably a better term), shooting double action revolvers is really a good time. I feel bad when I see someone shooting a 686 or GP100 only in single action because they can hit better that way. They're missing alot. Also, the trigger control will help in any kind of gun you shoot. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Dot_mdb]

I agree with L-Frame.

Once you get the knack for double action revolver shooting you will rarely want to go back to S/A. Besides needing practice you also have to have a reasonably good D/A trigger. Some triggers come from the factory with much too heavy a pull to be really useful.

Bill

 

[OH25shooter]

SA with a revolver...NO-NO-NO! Sounds like you simply need to find your nitch with that particular revolver. Don't be so hard on yourself. I've been shooting revolvers for over 25 years. I remember when I was taught the instructors told us to get a relaxed stance, clear sight picture (the gun sights not the target, that will be blurry) and SQUEEZE the trigger. If you want to start jerking and pulling the trigger, grab a shotgun. You've got a good handgun, maybe you should study the play book before you run the play. Or, have a qualified instructor show you the basics of sight alignment, stance, trigger pull, etc. Good Luck.

P.S. When I want to use SA only I use my 38/357 Ruger Blackhawk.

 

[YodaVader]

NO! SA mode. I fired a few shots in DA but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn that way.
Based on what everyone's said here I believe the problem is:

1) The wooden grips just don't fit me well - I'll get another set and see if that helps. I've got small hands so I might have trouble getting a set of grips that fit.

I have small hands as well but the Hogue grips that I have on my 686 fit me very well. They do not cost much and a lot of new Smiths have Hogue grips right from the factory.