fire power

[James T Thomas]

Are there any drills, tests, or measurement of the "repeatabiliy" of either the various factory rounds or handgun model comparison for reference?

I have seen the concept of repeatability mentioned here at THR and other sites that state for example "I like the 32 ACP round because of it's mild recoil so that I could get follow up shots on target in the self defense use of that particular round. Or just the opposite: the 44 magnum recoil is not conducive to rapid sucessive shooting.

So, are there mathematical comparisons of how many accurate shots; say, B10 or bullseye, within an alloted time? Short self defense ranges.

It would be an especially valid comparison to use one of the combination pistols such as the single shot 38 spl / 357 mag pistols.

What is of interest for me is to determine whether placing, for example, six rounds on target, versus five in say, ten seconds would make a real would self defense difference? This is only and example as I'm not aware of what the actual time versus shot numbers might be.

Of course, what ever test would be examined, it would not include reloading times, but only the shot, and recovery of the sight alignment ability.

And I'm not including the exceptional shooters. Only the moderately skilled civilian. I suppose that will be the most difficult factor to control, so for the data to be most relevant, the shooter should be the same person, and not a contest between individuals.

I hope this subject is a new one and has not been discussed before, however, any input would be appreciated.

Jim

 

[Jim Watson]

I am not sure it will cover what you want, but the action shooting sports, IPSC and IDPA, have any number of well established standard drills used for practice and evaluation.
Just one, that can be done with about anything, is the Bill Drill.
Place one IDPA or IPSC target at 7 yards.
Draw and fire six rounds as rapidly as possible.
Nothing but IDPA Zero Down (8" diameter) or IPSC A Zone (6"x8" rectangle)hits count. Your score is your time from the buzz of a shot timer til the sixth shot. If you cannot place 6 fast shots in 48-50 square inches, slow down until you can, reliably.
There are others, but that is one of the simplest I could think of at the moment. I bet you will see a difference between .32 and .44. Unfortunately, I do not know of any "official" standard, you will have to do the shooting and generate your own chart and means of interpretation.

 

[P95Carry]

James - certainly an interesting thing to explore but - I really do feel there are so many variables that the best we could come up with is individual based.

Think of small hands vs large hands - and place in each a snub loaded with 38's - then go to .357's - compare shooters. Could be a world of difference in accuracy and speed.

Tho it might seem to be skating round the edge I feel for each person there will be a best compromize - taking into account strength, body weight even - and then physical differences in hand sizes etc. Thus, I recommend each shooter - meaning new ones mostly - to try every darned gun they can borrow and get the feel of.

I carry 226 ST with 15+1 9mm +P - I can empty that gun usefully pretty quick tho not at shall we say ''professional'' levels - it is tho for me a good compromize over caliber/power/and gun dimensions.

I just saw you mentioned same shooter - OK well disregard my mention of differences in types - sorry should have read more accurately. If we took Mr Average then - chances are there will be still a compromize over controllability, aim/gun recovery and accurate shots fired. It can be argued that two well delivered 44 mag rounds will outdo twice as many 9mm's - nonetheless shot placement will still probably be the be all and end all.

Much to consider actually and I am just ''scribbling'' as I think aloud!

 

[James T Thomas]

Jim Watson: Thanks for the input and reply. The IPSC and IDPA drills you describe may be just what I am referring to. I will have to contact them and inquire if their records have enough detail so that I might conclude a comparison as to the "repeatability" between the various caliber -rounds.
There may or may not be a significance between the small to the big bore, or at least not as much difference as you might expect. I'm wondering about the time constraint they require now.

Can any interested reader provide web sites for these or other, similar associations so that I may contact them and ask?

P95Carry: (Is one of your carry pistols the Ruger P95; blue? I think it belongs in the most under rated post here. Good pistol.)
You stated that you could "empty" your 226ST; firing stout ammo rapidly, but do admit that it might not be at a professional level.
That is the requirement that I refer to. That firing rapidly -but accurately, and in a given time constraint might offer an index or measurement of just how "repeatable" one caliber -cartridge might be compared to a different one.
The same shooter and perhaps the same handgun too, if possible. For example the 1911 model is available (or had been) in 9mm, 38 super -I think, 40 S&W, 45ACP, etc.
The standard, factory loadings of "self defense" ammunition.

Incidently, I often have to go back over a post as my first reading is a quick, cursory one, and also these trifocals have the computer reading prescription as a narrow field in the center so that I only see a few lines at once.
I do what you did in reading -often.

My question involves the transition of shooting multiple targets more than the placement of sucessive shots into one target, though, that is a function of "repeatability" too.

I am searching for a quantatative comparison. Hypothetical example.
7 yards, as you mentioned. One particular shooter with sustantial firearm experience. Ruger SP101 pistol with four inch barrel. Ten seconds shooting time.
Then, how many rounds from the 32 mag versus 357 mag were placed in the bullseye? A comparison.

Now we might make an evaluation of the "repeatability" of using a light recoiling caliber versus a heavy recoiling one, at least for this individual shooter. The answer would be numerical, such as six shots for the 32 and only three for the 357And I suppose that data from the IPSC, IDPA, and others might give an educated insight into just how an average shooter might handle the various gun and caliber combinations for self defense application.

 

[P95Carry]

James - actually my venerable P95DC is not a blued one - it was tho carry for some time earlier on and still comes out for an airing at times. Rugged, robust and very reliable - good reasons why I will not get rid of it - or my P97 come to that!.

The multiple target deal is certainly one which can radically change results re what we are discussing - and I do find rapid target changes slow me down a lot, relatively. Apart from slick gun function and shooting - much IMO will depend on an individual's ability to manage something akin to point shooting - sight aquisition is a big time waster.

I am getting pretty ancient and doubt my skill level will increase much now, despite practice - add old eyes to that and the equation is not a balanced one! I do ''cheat'' tho and have night sights and CT grips - so I play all areas for max advantage.

Hope some other folks comment to add to this. Jim's input is excellent and I should have thought to mention IPSC and IDPA - haven't got the links to hand right now, sorry. I shoot IDPA quite a bit and do find it helps as a practice drill - tho I invariably shoot as ''me vs me'' as against going for winning scores - those days are over methinks