Firearm Buyer Stupidity

[sxcamaro05]

I work at a Sporting Goods retailer and I am amazed at the ignorance most people exhibit about owning firearms. Everyday I get cutomers willingly trying to commit straw purchases or falsify 4473's.

My favorite examples are the customers that want to buy a firearm as a gift for someone else (excluding parents buying for a person under 18). Some will mention it upfront causing me to cancel the sale (followed by a four "letter word" you) or they will mention later on and hope they have tricked me (even though I can cancel the sale at anytime and will).

Another classic is the buyer that makes an outrageous statement (i.e. now I get take out that "insert business" hahaha) that forces me to cancel the sale. Or the "arm chair lawyer" that tells me I have no right to make him fill out a 4473 or refuses because it's only a .22 etc. I sometimes wonder why som many people have trouble with these simple concepts.

I guess my question is why do so many folks refuse to abide by the laws? I know this is a hot topic so I do not want a what's right or wrong debate, just commentary on what drives them to do it.

 

[Davey Wavey]

Another classic is the buyer that makes an outrageous statement (i.e. now I get take out that "insert business" hahaha) that forces me to cancel the sale.

I'm sorry I don't follow.

 

[Apuuli]

It seems to get iterated and reiterated every day, but buying a gun as a gift is neither a straw purchase, falsification of the 4473, nor illegal. It might be against store policy, but many people find store policies that stop them from making a completely legal transaction and bringing joy to a loved one prime targets for profanity.

 

[Imon]

I'm in the exact same situation as the OP. I'm all for gun rights but whether you agree with them or not, the law is the law and you have to follow it.

I ALWAYS emphasize that when the customer signs the 4473 on the back of the front page they're confirming that all the information they provided is truthful and complete. It's amazing how many people are willing to look over question 11.a., sign the document, and make a straw purchase.

I remember once I denied a gun sale because I wouldn't sell a handgun to a out-of-state resident and his friend offered to buy it for him which I also rejected as a straw purchase. He then said they'd just send another one of their friends later on to buy it and that we'd never know who it was.
I was blown away by how open this guy was about breaking the law. He certainly knew what he was doing was wrong but said it anyways and what worries me is that I see this behavior a lot.

I really wish people got their act together and purchased firearms without breaking the law or going into legal grey areas.

 

[Davek1977]

Stating that certain people are "stupid" for buying guns as gifts is rather harsh, especially since its 100% legal under the (federal) law, so long as its not being transferrred to a prohibited person. Before calling names, one should be aware of the laws themselves, IMO. While it may be company policy not to sell guns under such circumstances, there is absolutely NOTHING illegal about it in any way. I guess I want to know why the OP refuses to follow the law, as he has criticized his cumstomers for failure to do so.....even when what they were attempting was perfectly legal. So, Sxcamero05 why do you refuse to sell firearms in a manner consistent with federal law?

 

[NOLAEMT]

You might want to do some more reading on straw purchases.

Someone buying a firearm for another person not otherwise prohibited from possessing said firearm is not a straw purchase, provided they transfer the firearm in a manner in line with state and federal law.

(ie, if it is for someone out of state the transfer must go through an ffl in that state, but if in state in most places, no paperwork is required).

Before calling others "stupid" you should make sure you have your ducks in a row. its behavior like this that makes people think so poorly of gun shop employees

 

[Creature]

Thanks, NOLAEMT. I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I work at a Sporting Goods retailer and I am amazed at the ignorance most people exhibit about owning firearms.

You should not be amazed by their ignorance. Most people have never had a law class as it pertains to firearms. Most people have never had a gun safety course, especially if they don't own any guns. Most people do not understand the physics behind ballistics.

This is all specialized information. They haven't been exposed to it, or haven't been exposed to it by a person with correct information. Just look at some of the lame brain stuff that gets posted on gun forums by folks who "know" stuff to be true. Despite countless discussions here, Mythbusters doing tests, and some other folks doing tests, you still get people who think bullets knock people down or knock them off their feet.

Don't be surprised by the ignorance. My guess is that before you worked in a gun shop, you were rather ignorant as well about firearms law and as noted, you apparently stilll are despite your employment in the a business involved in the firearms industry.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

I'll give it a shot. Your average American knows diddly about federal gun laws. They/we are used to the freedom of seeing something on the shelf in our favorite store and being able to buy it at will as long as we have enough money for it(or good credit). They/we also believe it is neither the government's nor the store's business where we got the money to buy the firearm with as long as we obtained it in a legal manner.They/we were taught about the 2nd Amendment in school and know we have a right to own that firearm on the shelf. They/we also resent government intrusion into our lives at ANY level. Now some guy behind a counter in a gun store is telling us all this stuff about something he himself doesn't know much about causing them/us to get irritated......Only someone with-in the "gun culture"understands what is involved in purchasing a firearm from an FFL.

 

[Bubba613]

Only someone with-in the "gun culture"understands what is involved in purchasing a firearm from an FFL.

Truth.
This isn't taught in schools and seldom mentioned by the media. I can't tell how many times people have told me "I want the gun registered to me" or similar, even though this state doesn't have gun registration. I have to tell them it is just like buying a big screen TV.
The amazing thing about straw purchases is that anyone gets caught doing it, since they are so easy to evade.
I had a couple of guys in once looking at guns. The one picked out a Smith 4006 Tactical. He asked the out the door price and I told him. He told me he would go to the ATM and be back.
About 20 minutes later this chick comes in and says, "I'm looking for a 4006 Tactical" and points to it in the case. I tell her, sorry it's sold.
If she had come in the afternoon even and said "I'm looking for a .40 caliber pistol for the house" I probably would have sold it to her without thinking about it. There would be no reason to suspect a straw purchase.

 

[Sam1911]

My favorite examples are the customers that want to buy a firearm as a gift for someone else (excluding parents buying for a person under 18). Some will mention it upfront causing me to cancel the sale

So you're shocked at the stupidity (I think you meant to say "ignorance") of the average gun buyer -- and your primary example is a matter of the law that you yourself don't understand? While deliciously ironic, that's not an auspicious start to a thread.

There's a lot of ignorace in the world to go around. We're all grossly ignorant about those areas of endeavor we haven't researched ourselves -- and some areas (gee...like firearms law) are both complicated in text, and in the interpretations applied by the relevant enforcement agencies.

Obviously this is so, as you yourself have inadvertantly stumbled over a pretty big hole in your own understanding -- and as a DEALER, you SHOULD know better.

So ... dealers who don't read and understand the law ... what drives them to do it?

 

[meytind]

You do know that buying a firearm as a gift is perfectly fine within the scope of federal law, right? The buyer is the actual buyer and it is not a straw purchase. They buy the gun and are then legally allowed to keep it or give it away as a gift.

 

[Sam1911]

I sometimes wonder why som many people have trouble with these simple concepts.

Obviously these concepts are not so simple -- and I think most of our membership knew that already.

To save the OP getting further pummeled -- and on the general principle that we don't usually run threads insulting whole classes of folks -- I'm going to close this.

If the OP wants another round, I'll consider reopening this at his request.