Firearm transfer - question

[jimmyjackjones]

Hi,

I just purchased a handgun on Gunbroker for the first time. I live in upstate NY and the handgun is in a shop in Ohio. I set up the transfer with a local gun shop owner. He is doing the transfer for $25. After he sent out his FFL he stated that he would also have to collect sales tax on the handgun even though I already paid directly for the gun with a money order. Why would I have to pay sales tax to him if he doesn't collect any money from me other than the $25 for his service? If indeed he is not suppose to collect sales tax or I have the right to decide to pay it at the end of the year when I do my tax return, I do not want a conflict. I would like some kind of supporting document.

Thanks, Any advice is appreciated.

Mike

 

[aguyindallas]

Unless NY has some sort of weird law, I think he is trying to jack you around. Remember, in his eyes, you bought a gun from a competitor and he is not making money on it. You should not have to pay tax on an out of state product. He may be required to collect sales tax on the transfer fee ($25.00 x X.XX% sales tax), but even that sounds odd.

I would simply call another gun dealer in NY and ask them the policy.

 

[41 Redhawk]

Quite a few states have laws requiring you to pay sales tax on internet purchases and item purchased from out of state stores. On items not going through a retailer, they ask you to send money (I'm sure they get alot of response on this one ). When the item goes through a retailer, some states require they collect the tax.

 

[Bear Gulch]

I don't know about NY but Idaho does expect us to collect sales taxes. I disabree with the policy. but I also am not going to pay some other guys 6%. Maybe if you can produce a document that proves tax payment in Ohio. But this is one of the ethical dimensions to the internet that has yet to be fine tuned.

 

[Bear Gulch]

WHy don't you contact the State to find out what the real deal is for your local?

 

[dolanp]

One of the major reasons I decided to buy one of my guns online was to save money on the tax. My FFL didn't charge tax except on the fee itself.

Though I remember hearing somewhere up in the Northeast that the gov't was forcing people to pay tax on cigarettes they bought out of state so I guess it's quite conceivable that NY state may have laws to that effect for firearms as well.

 

[HankB]

A sales tax on the transfer fee is probably in order . . . a sales tax on the rest is not, and it makes the guy sound like a crook. I mean, if you buy a computer, washing machine, or lawn chair from your next door neighbor, you don't pay sales tax on that, do you?

It shouldn't be much, anyway, since you you just bought the gun for $1 . . .

 

[JoeHatley]

I'm pretty sure it's going to depend on your state. Here in Iowa, I pay tax on all my transfers to the receiving dealer.

Joe

 

[Bear Gulch]

Buying things out of state has been a long and honored tradition in New York. I cannot imagine liveing under the tax burden that they do. They temporarily raised the sales tax in Idaho to 6% and nearly had rioting. It will sunset back down to 5% in May. My property taxes are 600 bucks a year for a 100K home on 3 lots. Fuel taxes are high, but not excessive.

 

[bean357]

I had the same experience with one dealer wanting to collect sales tax on the price I paid a private party from another state. He wanted this in addition to a $20 transfer fee. I checked around and found a number of other dealers who would do the transfer, with prices ranging from $15-25. One dealer did say I would need to pay him sales tax besides the fee only if the firearm came from someone within my state.

 

[PI Rob]

In Colorado we have to pay sales tax on Internet purchases. My gun dealer charges something like $9.29 for the transfer and the rest is tax, so it works out to an even $10. I'd call some other FFL's in your area and see if they charge tax as well.

 

[pythonguy]

I live in New York and over the past year have bought 4 used and 2 new guns from dealers in other states. I have not paid one penny in sales tax, ever. I have paid a $35 FFL transfer fee to my dealer, and that was it. He doesn't even need to get a receipt with the purchase price on it. All you need to get from your FFL is the serial number and his FFL number to register the gun. Now, does Ohio have a cross purchase agreement with New York to collect tax? I don't know that, but I bought the 2 new guns from Connecticut and never had taxes mentioned except to say I'd save on them. Sounds like your FFL saw the bill and how much he lost on a sale and decided to get even.

 

[Shorts]

When I bought my gun from a private guy down in TX, I had it shipped up here to WA and my FFL did not charge me any taxes, only his FFL fee $20. I don't know if that is a store policy that you're dealing with, or if it is a state law, but check around. I'd be irked too if I had to pay sales tax on something he didn't sell me.

 

[Bear Gulch]

I would assume that it would be the same as shipping a gun you own to another state Via FFL transfer. But if that were the case, FFL #1 could get stroked for selling a hand gun to someone from out of state. You got yourself a mess brother!

 

[45crittergitter]

I am in MS. I intentionally try to pay the out of state sellers directly, and just have my FFL do the transfer for his fee. Here, there is no tax charged on what I paid out of state directly, but there is on what I pay my MS FFL. Saves $50 or so every time.

 

[41 Redhawk]

Quoted will be a series of e-mails that a high road member posted concerning sales tax on a transferred firearm. This applys to PA but I would not be surprised if it applied to other states as well.
Question Reference #040902-000153

Subject: Sales Tax on Out of State Friearms
Tax Category: Sales Tax
Submitted: 09/02/2004 05:27 PM
Last Updated: 09/21/2004 02:29 AM
Status: Solved

Discussion Thread
Response (Rachelle) 09/14/2004 03:43 PM
Sir:

I consulted with our Office of Chief Counsel, sales tax attorneys, and yes, the transfer is subject to sales/use tax.

Customer 09/09/2004 01:22 PM
The firearm was purchased and paid for out of State.
The Pennsylvania FFL was simply doing the transfer.

Response (Rachelle) 09/09/2004 12:41 PM
Sir:

Did you pay the dealer while you were out of State OR did you pay the dealer in Pittsburgh? Your first question led me to believe that money exchanged hands in PA. If you would clarify that for me, then I will better know how to answer your question.

Customer 09/08/2004 01:21 PM
Let me just clarify this. The firearm was purchased out of State. The FFL dealer in PA is simply transferring the firearm ownership,not completeing a pruchase tansaction. Is the FFL dealer in PA still obliged to collect sales tax?

Response (Rachelle) 09/08/2004 11:21 AM
Richard,

Absolutely. The firearm was delivered to a location within the Commonwealth and actually you should have been charged 7% as the purchase took place in Allegheny County.

Auto-Response (Rachelle) 09/02/2004 05:27 PM

Also, another link concerning payment of PA use tax for items purchased from outside the state or from the Internet:
https://revenue-pa.custhelp.com/cgi...mFueX4mcF9zb3J0X2J5PWRmbHQmcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=

It stinks but goverment wants all the money!

 

[pythonguy]

With all due respect 41 Redhawk, thats like asking a cop if its OK to roll through a stop sign very slowly, or do you have to make a full stop? Of course a tax attorney will give the most conservative and legal answer, but that does not address the gray area of internet taxes. First off, all professional people, attorneys, accountants always tell you what is the absolute right thing to do. Secondly, because this person gives that opinion, in their state, doesn't mean it is true in New York, or even in PA for that matter. I think that was just a politically correct answer, "pay your taxes good citizen". I called New York state tax dept, I do the accounting for my office, and was told "at this time there in no enforcement of internet sales tax on private purchases". Who's right? I want to believe what I heard because its better for me, but you can ask different people and get different answers. I asked a few of the local gun shops I frequent about their FFL charge for transfers and asked if taxes where involved, they said no to the tax charge. Its like when you buy a magazine, there are no taxes on books or magazines in NY, but some small stores try and charge you. If they can get away with it they will. If an FFL wanted to charge taxes, I'd go to another FFL.

 

[firesafety3]

How does your FFL know the purchase price of the item in order to charge sales tax?

The gun may have to be shipped through an FFL but your guy doesn't know whether you bought it from a gun shop/store or sent a money order to a private individual.

We pay no such tax here in Louisiana. I have never had a receipt of payment shipped with the gun. Do the FFLs there open up the old blue book and assess tax on approximate value? Is a receipt required to be included with the gun, even in the case of a private transaction?

Just curious as to how this process is managed.

 

[Intune]

That was nice of your uncle to only charge you shipping on your new gun. I'm sure the FFL holder realizes that he will be selling you a bunch of stuff to go with it over the years.

 

[41 Redhawk]

Pythonguy,

I never indicated that NY required taxes to be paid like PA does. It was simply an example as my earlier post indicated. Not to long ago states were trying to require Internet companies to collect and submit taxes to the state the purchaser lives in. The Federal goverment stopped that. Pa includes a line on their tax form for for you to report and pay taxes on things purchased out of state or off the Internet. They most definitely want the money.

 

[bill2]

I live in CA, and the transfer fees you guys are talking about are really low. I asked a gunshop that I frequent here in the bay area, and they the total fee was with $60 or $70, including a DROS fee? anyone in CA help me out here. Is the 70 bucks excessive or normal for CA?

 

[dolanp]

CA usually has pretty lame prices from what I hear. Though I think $70 is high even for Cali, I think you could do $30-$50 on average. I've heard of some wanting $100+ though.

 

[gezzer]

What's a sales tax?