Firms In the Reloading Business

[gbw]

How are these fine firms making it? I'm thinking about Lee, Lyman, Hornady, Dillon, RCBS, and the retailers too, Grafs, Powder Valley, and many others.

Some of these companies are parts of conglomerates, and some have other lines of business. Still, it has to hurt that primers, for example, and to a lesser extent powder, have been virtually non-existent for going on 2 years now with no end in sight.

I got a nice Dillon catalog not long ago and my first reaction was no thanks. Much as I'd like to support them, it doesn't make sense to spend scarce money buying reloading equipment that's not usable. Or buy supplies that are available when it's not possible to get everything needed to actually reload, and certainly not at a sensible price.

Some of these companies and the people who work for them have to be struggling. I've been a customer and fan of many of them for many years and I hope they make it.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Those of us who had been through these shortages before. And stocked up on supplies will keep them going. I ordered lee and RCBS products during this latest. As well as bullets and brass.

 

[Caplock]

If I were a rich man I'd start an ammo plant. First and foremost start making primers by the train load.

Always take care of the reloaders and you have loyal customers forever.

CCI, Federal, Winchester could keep all their primers for their low quality factory range blasting ammo.

Maybe all the companies you listed could go in as share holders for a percentage by giving me capital to get started?
Anyone know an explosives chemist?

 

[gbw]

Those of us who had been through these shortages before. And stocked up on supplies will keep them going. I ordered lee and RCBS products during this latest. As well as bullets and brass.

Maybe but I doubt it. There aren't enough of us who had both the foresight and the money to stock on both powder and primers up for so long. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[earlthegoat2]

The reloaders and hand loafers who really keep the companies in business know to keep hefty supplies on hand.

Even though I don’t reload much and have a full compliment of the equipment to do it, I bought it all second hand and on major discount over the years.

Despite all this I have over 30,000 primers of various types that I also found on sale or at garage sales and swap meets.

Never ever pass up a deal on primers. It is probably the lowest cost highest return item in all of the shooting sports.

 

[Thomasss]

Building an ammo plant problems: It takes lots of money, $10 million plus to just build a plant; then buy and install special equipment; train people and continue to make a profit after the shortages end. That's why Vista bought Remington ammo. It was already there with people and brand name recognition. Now tell me why that when I bought their stock 2 months ago I'm still 2 points down in the standings. Last year, after the Rem. buy, Vista went from $19 to $39/share. Hopefully after the Fed unemployment comp ends and the hunting season ramps up, I will see some improvement. Vista says they have over a billion $ back orders.

 

[.308 Norma]

it doesn't make sense to spend scarce money buying reloading equipment that's not usable.

While I agree with that, it also "doesn't make much sense to spend scarce money buying reloading equipment" that you already have! RCBS, Dillon, Lee, Hornady, Lyman - ALL of those companies have managed to stay in business even though I (and a good many other handloaders I'll bet) haven't bought a piece of equipment from them since long before this current "crisis" started. Unlike a lot of other things, maybe even most things on the market today, handloading equipment isn't exactly disposable. For that matter, I've been through 3 pickup trucks since I bought my last reloading press.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Building an ammo plant problems: It takes lots of money, $10 million plus to just build a plant; then buy and install special equipment; train people and continue to make a profit after the shortages end. That's why Vista bought Remington ammo. It was already there with people and brand name recognition. Now tell me why that when I bought their stock 2 months ago I'm still 2 points down in the standings. Last year, after the Rem. buy, Vista went from $19 to $39/share. Hopefully after the Fed unemployment comp ends and the hunting season ramps up, I will see some improvement. Vista says they have over a billion $ back orders.

I doubt the stocks like VSTO or the firearms mfrs will ever be high flyers because there isn’t much room for growth. I’m not saying the companies can’t make money and lots of it, but growth of the industry isn’t going to happen on the scale necessary for stocks to really jump (even 10 million new gun owners isn’t enough).

 

[Mark_Mark]

I doubt the stocks like VSTO or the firearms mfrs will ever be high flyers because there isn’t much room for growth. I’m not saying the companies can’t make money and lots of it, but growth of the industry isn’t going to happen on the scale necessary for stocks to really jump (even 10 million new gun owners isn’t enough).

Just wait till they start arming Dogs and Eagles . then it’s $$$$$$ time

 

[CQB45ACP]

Just wait till they start arming Dogs and Eagles . then it’s $$$$$$ time

For all our Philadelphia fans...the Eagles are dogs

 

[gbw]

While I agree with that, it also "doesn't make much sense to spend scarce money buying reloading equipment" that you already have! RCBS, Dillon, Lee, Hornady, Lyman - ALL of those companies have managed to stay in business even though I (and a good many other handloaders I'll bet) haven't bought a piece of equipment from them since long before this current "crisis" started. Unlike a lot of other things, maybe even most things on the market today, handloading equipment isn't exactly disposable. For that matter, I've been through 3 pickup trucks since I bought my last reloading press.

Exactly. I speculate these companies depend on existing users upgrading from time to time, as I have, but more importantly on a steady stream of new customers; folks wanting to get into reloading. And right now it just doesn't make sense to spend money to start reloading since they can't get supplies. I also don't think their businesses depend too much on the supplies sold to a few hoarding (but smart) geezers.

Please - this thread isn't about equity prices, it's about these fine companies surviving given the low incentive to get into reloading. If they do the stock will take care of itself. If they don't, it won't.

 

[LiveLife]

How are these fine firms making it?

Likely having the best years of their lives with record revenues and profits.

I got a nice Dillon catalog not long ago and my first reaction was no thanks. Much as I'd like to support them, it doesn't make sense to spend scarce money buying reloading equipment that's not usable. Or buy supplies that are available when it's not possible to get everything needed to actually reload, and certainly not at a sensible price.

I disagree.

People buy cars, trucks and electric vehicles with no concern for fuel supply issues as to where/how they are going to obtain gasoline, diesel and charging for batteries.

I'm thinking about Lee, Lyman, Hornady, Dillon, RCBS, and the retailers too, Grafs, Powder Valley, and many others.

Some of these companies are parts of conglomerates, and some have other lines of business.

Lee Precision sells worldwide and likely outsells all the other reloading companies COMBINED on an annual basis.

And unlike many other companies who outsourced manufacturing, Lee (Along with CH4D/C-H) still manufactures all of their stuff in the USA.

Yes, many reloading companies like Alliant, Speer, CCI, Federal that make reloading components are part of large parent company like Vista Outdoor/ATK and celebrating record setting profits as gun/accessories related sales have been strong.

Still, it has to hurt that primers, for example, and to a lesser extent powder, have been virtually non-existent for going on 2 years now with no end in sight.

Nope.

If retail level consumers have not see primers and powders for 2 years, that means primer and powder manufacturers have been selling everything they could manufacture on overtime 24/7 multiple shift/production lines for record level revenues and profits. Keep in mind these manufacturers fill military/commercial/wholesale contract and pre-orders before they release for retail/consumer sales which will be trickling out only afterwards.

people who work for them have to be struggling. I've been a customer and fan of many of them for many years and I hope they make it.

Yes, they sure must be struggling to work all that overtime and bonuses for working weekends/holidays to meet demands.

And I am sure they will "make it".

Please - this thread isn't about equity prices, it's about these fine companies surviving given the low incentive to get into reloading. If they do the stock will take care of itself. If they don't, it won't.

LOL, over 100 million new guns were sold within the past decades added to several hundred already in existence. These new guns need ammunition and when gun owners cannot buy ammunition, they quickly/often get into reloading.

I bet dinner that record setting number of new gun owners have gotten into reloading the past 10 years especially with advent of reloading videos on Youtube. (I will take my ribeye steak medium rare please).

 

[.308 Norma]

I speculate these companies depend on existing users upgrading from time to time, as I have, but more importantly on a steady stream of new customers

Yep, I think you're right. I'd forgotten that I was one of those "new customers" once upon a time. And that was long before there was an internet and internet message boards telling me I couldn't find reloading components anywhere, so it wouldn't make much sense for me to buy reloading equipment.
Hopefully things will turn around soon.

 

[EricBu]

Well, Graf's has enough things I need in stock that I drop a couple thousand on them every month. Same with a few other's on your list. I haven't had any real problems getting primers, just paying more for them. Most of these companies are doing just fine, and will come out of this find...all of them have been at this rodeo a couple of times. Some may seem like they aren't selling anything....but those may be OEM providers, and will serve them first. Companies like Starline, and bullet companies are thriving right now. As long as they can keep getting raw materials they will be fine. Every company that makes components is running their machines 24/7, and shipping as fast as they can package things up. I think one thing that is catching the industry by surprise is the revolver resurgence. In large part due to the new first time gun buyers, a lot of them bought revolvers for their simplicity, and because early in the panic 9mm and 40 were gone, but the shelves were still well stocked with (over priced) 327 Fed, 38, 357, 44 SPL, 44 Mag and even 45 Colt Defense/410 aimed at the Judge/Gov market. All those new revolver owners bought all that ammo up quick...and the industry has been neglecting that segment for years now...with over priced ammo, and dropping production every time there is a shortage because there are more people asking for 9/40/556. It's made a nice little niche that a few smart entrepreneurs are taking advantage of.

 

[LiveLife]

I doubt the stocks like VSTO or the firearms mfrs will ever be high flyers because there isn’t much room for growth.

I have been a technical swing trader for the past 30 years as a hobby and VSTO recently experienced 200MA bottom early 2020 and went from $5 to $45 with 50MA rising above 200MA and formed "trade channel" with impressive gain of 800%. Trade channel will remain as long as 50MA remains positive above 200MA. Will VSTO continue to go up? Current support is at $37.50 with resistance forming a trade triangle which could signal breakout up or down. I anticipate trade triangle narrowing as more profit taking activity takes place (Would you not after 800% gain?) but if breakout up occurs after resistance line falls to support line, then share price many climb further. If breakdown occurs, retracement down to previous support levels of $27.50 and even down to $17.50 could occur and that would depend on short sellers as to when they choose to cover their short positions. But RSI is at "Oversold" position with MACD line falling below reference line which can signal rebound or bearish drop. IMO, much will depend on share price falling below support at $37.50 and when that happens, I anticipate a near-term drop in price (But if the drop is significant, anticipate a strong short covering rebound near-term). After that? Well, my crystal ball doesn't go that far into the future. FYI, just ramblings of random internet poster on a gun forum so consult a financial expert before buying/trading any securities.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I have been a technical swing trader for the past 30 years as a hobby and VSTO recently experienced 200MA bottom early 2020 and went from $5 to $45 with 50MA rising above 200MA and formed "trade channel" with impressive gain of 800%. Trade channel will remain as long as 50MA remains positive above 200MA. Will VSTO continue to go up? Current support is at $37.50 with resistance forming a trade triangle which could signal breakout up or down. I anticipate trade triangle narrowing as more profit taking activity takes place (Would you not after 800% gain?) but if breakout up occurs after resistance line falls to support line, then share price many climb further. If breakdown occurs, retracement down to previous support levels of $27.50 and even down to $17.50 could occur and that would depend on short sellers as to when they choose to cover their short positions. But RSI is at "Oversold" position with MACD line falling below reference line which can signal rebound or bearish drop. IMO, much will depend on share price falling below support at $37.50 and when that happens, I anticipate a near-term drop in price (But if the drop is significant, anticipate a strong short covering rebound near-term). After that? Well, my crystal ball doesn't go that far into the future. FYI, just ramblings of random internet poster on a gun forum so consult a financial expert before buying/trading any securities.

All that’s interesting I guess but if you’d bought in 2016, you’d still be underwater.

 

[LiveLife]

All that’s interesting I guess but if you’d bought in 2016, you’d still be underwater.

Swing Trading is typically done in matter of days to weeks unless supported trade channel forms to hold longer.

I tried longer term Trend Trading in the 90s when I started out trading stocks but it didn't work out and why I learned technical charting and started day trading and now swing trading. But enough thread hijack, back to OP.