First 9mm and intro

[8mman]

Hello all, let me first introduce myself before asking my question. I am a 20 year old third year college student at VCU and am majoring in criminal justice. I got interested in firearms through my father whom I went with to gun shows frequently when I was younger. I still go by myself from time to time. My first gun I got from my father when I was young, it was a 20 gauge Remington express 870 youth shotgun. However, my first firearm that I bought and still own is a Mauser M48BO 8mm. I love that rifle, it is dead accurate and I'm just beginner. On a sidenote my father is a member of S.A.S.S. and loves his cowboy action revolvers which I can't seem to shoot to save life, don't quite know how to aim those half-moon sights.

I will be turning 21 in a few months and am looking for a double stack 9mm semiauto, especially since the AWB expired. I have had the pleasure of fondling quite a few of the handguns I'm considering. I haven't fired any of them just held. The two that have the best ergos by a small margin are the Beretta 92fs and Browning Hi-power. I'm only looking for a handgun for range shooting and home defense. Here are my feelings regarding the ones I've handled and the knowledge I've gained about them so far.

Beretta 92fs: Great feel, well-balanced, love the stainless model. All controls within reach of normal firing position except manual safety. Criticisms I've heard are that it has a long DA pull and only has average to good accuracy.

Browning Hi-power: Great ergos, but I'd replace the walnut grips, all controls within reach of normal firing position. I've heard the Mk.3 is rated for +p ammo and hollowpoints. Criticisms I've heard are that it requires a lot of gunsmithing such as ridding the the gun of it's mag safety, replacing extractor, hammer bite. I like the the thin design and it has great pointability. The feel might beat out the Beretta but the jury is still out on that one. Not really sure I want to spend a lot on gunsmithing.

Glock 19: Fits snuggly into my hand, light, good pointability, can reach all controls without having to contort my hand from a normal firing position. I'm excluding the 17 because I feel the grip angle everyone talks about more pronounced and the grip is bigger than what I need. Criticisms I've heard are that the trigger is unnatural, and the grip angle mentioned above. Otherwise I like this pistol.

Walther p99. Ergos are great, don't like the lever mag release much, great pointability. Some people say this gun needs a break-in period and that the TDA trigger is.....well.....you either love it or hate it. Otherwise this gun might beat the glock 19 for ergos by a small margin.

Sig P226/P228: Ergos on both these guns is ok with the p228 only a tad bit better IMHO. I can reach all controls without having to contort my hand from a normal firing position. Haven't heard much complaints about sigs here. I've heard they're very accurate with the best DA pull in an auto. Love the decock as opposed to manual safety and its more reachable than the Walther's. I am afraid if, by chance, I do go with the p228 I might sacrifice accuracy and ballistic performance.

Wesson 5906: Fits well in my hand but some controls hard to reach.

Springfield XD: Grip angle better than that of a glock but the trigger safety and grip safety feel weird. Everything within reach of thumb, except trigger of course.

Ruger P95: Well balanced and fits my hand well, however the mag release cuts into my finger and I can't reach the slide release without contorting my hand.

Ones I've felt and disqualified:

Hk USP: Grips too big. The checkering digs into my hand. Forget about reaching the mag release with my thumb or the DA trigger with my index finger. Forget the compacts still can't reach the mag release with thumb.

CZ 75: DA trigger reach is too far. The Cz-75SA has a trigger that looks weird and unnatural. The P01 doesn't look like it'd be all that much better.


That's all I can think of for right now. I've been meaning to feel that FNP9 it looks pretty good. Would appreciate any info on this gun you could give me. I'm really just looking for people opinions and suggestions on which you think I should choose. I know to go to a range and rent some various 9mm's and plan on going to Dominion Shooting Range in Richmond, VA sooner or later. By the way do you have to be 21 to rent handguns or is that just to purchase?

 

[Sean85746]

Hi Power Or Glock

I'd go with the Glock if it is to be a first hand gun.

I have 7 Glocks, and love them. There was a time when you'd never see one of "them plastic sissy pistols" in my holster. Now, I don't think you can get a better general duty pistol than a Glock. There are some that are more expensive, and some that are prettier, but the "tactical tupperware" goes BANG every time you press the trigger!

I LOVE the Browning Hi Power. I don't see a time in my life where I will sell any of the several I own...but the single action demands a large commitment to it's safe use. i.e. KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ARE ON TARGET AND WILLING TO DESTROY WHAT YOUR GUN IS POINTED AT

Sig...great guns, but they are hard to master double taps, as they have a weak trigger return spring, and the bore axis is high to the hand, causing more muzzle flip than many models.

Beretta...darned fine weapon...you can always use it as a club if you run out of ammo! It's a bit on the large side.

Smith autos...I don't know how the company that brought us the best DA trigger pull out of the box on a revolver could make such a crappy trigger on a DA auto, especially since all the trigger needs to do is pull a hammer back until it releases...not cycle a revolver's entire action. BUT, on the plus side...they work, and work well. I have an OLD model 39 that I'd not give up.

Ruger...can't break 'em. Hard to look at, and as big as the Beretta and Sig...but they work.

CZ series. They are nice, if a bit arcane. Good triggers, and always work.

Sprinfield XD...ew. THAT is an UGLY gun.

I'd still go with the Glock in model 17 or model 19. You still have to keep your finger off the trigger, as with ANY gun, but they are so easy to master, and the polymer frame eats up recoil.

Hope this helped some.

 

[9mmepiphany]

i find it interesting that your two favorites are the browning p-35 and the beretta 92 as they shoot so differently...at least in my hands.

i find the p-35 just about the most comfortable wundernine to hold and point while the 92 just feels blocky. but when i took the two to the range and shot them side by side, the p-35 pointed and shot way low while the 92 seemed to just lock into the target. you really need to shoot both before deciding.

if you don't like the slide mounted safety on the beretta, you could select a "G" model...which changes the safety into a "decock only" lever. i've found the DA trigger pull on the beretta the smoothess of all my "untuned" pistols

i also think the walther p99 has outstanding ergos. i really like the mag releases because i can hit it with either my thumb or index finger and i find the downward motion more "natural" than "pushing in" on a button...i'm still getting used to the trigger. the decock is designed to be activated by the offhand coming over the top.

 

[Majic]

Beretta is a nice pistol, but I would save some money and get the Taurus. It will equal the Beretta as their 92 series is about the best they ever made.
The Hi-Power is the all time classic. All that gunsmithing isn't required. Some people just have to tinker or have someone else tinker with their guns. Out of the box they are just fine. They just lend themselves to customizing like the 1911.
All Glocks have the same grip angle, just different sizes. Perssonally I don't think they are very good for a new shooter.
I have never had any dealings with the Walther/S&W 99.
Sigs sit to high up in my hand for m tastes. I've never seen anything special about them to warrant the high praise they get.
The S&W pistols, except the M39, M52, M59, all need a lesson in ergomonics. They are strong pistols, but have grip frames that are as comfortable as holding a brick.
The XD has a better grip angle than the Glock, but the same comments for one applies to the other.
The Rugers are another strong pistol. They generally sell for a good price, but they fall under the Butt Ugly Utility Piece catergory IMO.

There will be another gunshow at the ShowPlace Dec. 4th and 5th. Maybe you can get some more ideas there.

 

[sundance43.5]

I would recommend either the Beretta or a Sig.

For your first 9mm and your first handgun, get something nice, and you'll appreciate the gun and shooting in general, a little more. I'm not a huge plastic gun guy myself. Nothing feels better than a Beretta, Sig, or Hi Power. Any of those give you a certain pride of ownership as well, that for myself isn't present with any of the Glocks or the XD I've owned.

If you get a Beretta, get the stainless that you said you liked. I own a stainless Beretta 92, and it is head and shoulders above the rest as my favorite gun. It's VERY accurate, the stock trigger isn't bad, and everytime you rack the slide, it feels like glass on glass.

My next purchase will be a Sig 226 or 228.

 

[RON in PA]

Everybody has their favorites, often for irrational reasons. For me the BHP is the best 9mm as far as "feel", but if I were to actually carry a full sized pistol I'd prefer a DA/SA like a Ruger, SIG, S&W or Beretta. They are all excellent guns. By the way, when I carry it's a wheel gun. If you do get the BHP you don't have to tinker with it at all. It works fine out of the box. The trigger will improve over the first couple of hundred shots and the same can be said for most any gun.

 

[Ala Dan]

Please!

Let me clear up one mystery, if I may? You will not sacrifice any
accuracy by choosing the SIG P228, over its cousin the P226. Owning
both, I found that I got better groups with the P228, than I could with
the P226. And besides, the American grip angle of the P228 fits
my mitts better than the Euro grip angle of the P226. Both are great
firearms; and you won't go wrong by choosing either!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Berg01]

I always want to encourage the younger handgun shooters, you are the future of this great sport. But I'm afraid you might be "jumping the gun" (bad pun) in selecting your first handgun.

As soon as you are 21, I would encourage you to go to the closest pistol range that offers the NRA Basic Pistol Safety course, and enroll in the next available class. If I had any say in the gun laws, this class would be a prerequisite to getting a License to Carry here in Pennsylvania.

The course stressed safe and legal firearm useage, with a lot of emphasis on gun maintenance, proper function, and range safety. We learned to clean & oil the guns before we took our first shots. I rented a gun for the course, as I did not own a gun at that time.

Even though he was repeatedly asked this type of question, the instuctor would never recommend a particular pistol over another, he always encouraged the students to get out & rent or borrow as many guns as possible before actually committing to a firearm purchase. I followed this advice, and was glad I did. After the course, I rented or borowed over 20 different pistols and revolvers before I bought my first one. I always thought this was good common-sense advice, so (FWIW) I'm passing it along for your consideration.

 

[9mmepiphany]

if you decide you like the look and feel of the beretta better and money is an issue, or even if it isn't and you just like the thumb safety better, i would not lose any sleep over getting a taurus

the brazilian clone is a great gun and you retain the original location of the thumb safety as on the 92. it allows condition one carry and also acts as a very ergo decocker.

 

[phantomak47]

a fellow college students advice

I would have to recomend the Sig 226....I have it in 9mm and I love it. All you do is decock it and your good to go. That is one of the main reasons why I picked it over the Beretta, also I would compare the pistols at the same time, for some reason it helps....I picked my sig over my Beretta and I never looked back.


I had a friend in the marines, he was on a cqb team and he carried and respected the Beretta, even though you will find a lot of people hate that gun.There is nothing wrong with it.Look at the vertec too.


As for Glocks check them out, a lot of Glock haters out there, but they are popular for a good reason.


I just love my Sig too much.....so I would have to recomend it.

 

[only1asterisk]

8mm,

If you live in the Fan, you need a carry gun too! Have you been to Greentop's yet? I've got a friend in Richmond that likely hasn't been to the range in a long time. I'll have to see if I can dig up his number (a former VCU criminal justice major himself).

David

 

[MrMurphy]

The Beretta is a good gun.However, it's way too big for what it delivers (9mm). I have somewhat small hands and the 92 I shoot fine I just can't reach the controls well.

Glock 19 is an excellent gun. Just remember Rule 1 (keep your finger off the trigger!). I carry a similar-sized .45 ACP Glock 30 every day.

The Sig is excellent, but not cheap!

If you like the Browning Hi Power, the Arcus 94 clone, which is high quality, shoots and feels the same,but only costs $300, is available.

Don't discount the Ruger P89 for a first 9mm for home/range use. Solid shooter, accurate, and you can beat someone to death with it if all else fails... Weightwise, similar to a Beretta.

 

[PaleRyder]

CZs and Berettas are both way too large for my hands. The Hi Powers fit well, and my favorite also after trying several are the Glocks.

 

[Northslope Nimrod]

My two cents!

I have the H-power and have shot many glocks and others but not the Beretta. I have no negatives about Beretta. But I would go with a gun that is capable of SA if you are planning a lot of range shooting. The 1911 has the best trigger with all the positives of the Hi-power. Don't worry about the Hi-power gunsmithing. I had the mag safety removed and a trigger job for $25. The hammer bite has never been an issue for me but I have small hands.
For home defense, however, I would lean toward a Double Action Only gun....the long hard trigger is a good safety while your doing a sweep of the house. The Hi-power is good to but I usually only recommend SA pistols for defense if the shooter is experienced and willing to practice. I love my Browning. Never had a misfeed in over 2,000 rounds. Its a great carry gun too...due to its slim construction. My next gun will be a 1911. I like their triggers.

 

[extremefishin00]

8mm,

I just graduated from VCU in May, with a Bachelor's in, wouldn't you know it, criminal justice. Though Richmond city doesn't seem to have any laws against having firearms in your home, you might want to check about laws against concealed carry. As far as I know, it's fine, but it never hurts to check. Also, remember that VCU is specifically mentioned in Virginia statutes as a place where you can't carry concealed. Weird huh?

I have to recommend you try the USP compact again, except this time, try using your trigger finger to release the mag. I have a little trouble with HK's fullsize pistols (especially the .45), but the compact is a great fit

Re: the p99, the trigger does seem to get better as it breaks in. A buddy of mine owns one, and it has really smoothed out.

In my opinion, the P01 has a different feel than the CZ-75, for me at least. My grip feels more secure with the P01.

Either way, you've mentioned nothing but quality weapons, and it will be hard to go wrong if you choose either one.

Dominion's is a pretty good range, it just gets expensive since you have to buy their ammo, and they charge full price..However, the guys that work there are very nice, and they were helpful when I went. I'm not sure if you have to be 21 to rent their guns, but it never hurts to call and ask them.

Greentop is an excellent shop. My only complaint is that their prices are a bit higher than what you might pay at a gun show, or online. However, their staff is pretty helpful, they seem to be no-bs for the most part, and they have lay-a-way Also, you might want to do a google search for C&E gunshows. There should be another one coming up soon. Sometimes you can find some pretty good deals.

Feel free to send me a message if you have anymore questions.

only1asterisk,

Glad to see I'm not the only former VCU student on here. I think we need to get a Richmond shoot together sometime.

 

[boofus]

This is probably blasphemy but I recently replaced my P7M8 carry gun with a Sig P228. It feels good in the hand and has 50% more mag capacity and mags don't cost $50 apiece.

If you plan on getting a 9mm Sig the P228 is the way to go. It is lighter than the 229 because the slide isn't beefed up for use with .357sig and .40s&w

 

[9mmepiphany]

heretic alert

the 228 is a fine gun...possibly sig's nicest 9mm for CCW...but it just isn't the same as a P7

maybe it is because it was only a M8, the PSP is incomparable as a CCW piece

 

[joszx67]

First Handgun

8mm,
Back in the day, I purchased my first handgun from a shop/indoor range in the Southside (forgot the name/it's been 17+yrs). It was a Glock 17, when it first came out. I was living on Franklin St. then and carried it religiously around the Fan. Never on campus at VCU during classes of course but everywhere else. It was the beginning of the crack epidemic and back then, an average of 1 or 2 murders a day...... I've shot most of the guns you've listed and I would highly recommend the Sig 228. It's compact, hi-cap mags, great CCW gun and very accurate. I carry a SW1911 .45 now and like it a lot. My first .45 since I was always a 9mm guy. If I have to get a 9mm now, it would be the Sig 228. All the guns you've list are good guns, it's just depends on what you are willing to pay and your major purpose for a handgun. Good luck and practice with whatever you decide on.

 

[Ken Rainey]

Of the ones you listed, I would recommend the Glock 19. It is a simple, durable, design that has the same trigger pull for each shot (not to light/not to heavy - but can be easily changed either way), won't rust, and is the most user friendly pistol in operation as well as maintenance that I know of. I have settled on three types of handguns for my use; revolvers, 1911's (and Hi Powers), and Glocks - reasons being; trigger pulls, fit in hand, durability, repairability, and ease of use. Of all these, the Glock is the easiest to use and maintain.

They all have their place and some are better suited for specific tasks more than the others, but if I were just getting into handguns and had to have a semi automatic, it'd be a 9mm Glock. For the uses you listed ,home protection and range, you simply cannot go wrong with a Glock.

As always, remember the safe handling rules that always apply no matter what you select - the main one - don't point your pistol at ANYTHING that you're not willing to destroy. Others always say of the Glock - to Keep you finger off the trigger and always us a holster that covers the trigger - like the trigger is a weak point of the firearm that barely takes a nudge to go off - which is not so, but you still have to be mindful of your finger on/off ALL triggers as I'm sure you are aware.

Picking a pistol that fits your hand and points naturally will help a lot in hitting what you shoot at. Glocks are tolerant of dry firing which will help a lot also.

Personally, I usually recommend a good revolver for a first/only handgun - usually a S&W K frame in .38 special with appropriate grips and then, if they want to get something else later on, they should have developed good trigger control (if they practiced double action fire) making the transition to other handguns easier. Good luck with whatever you pick and welcome to the world of handgunning.

As always, YMMV.

Ken

 

[cstuard]

While my wife and I are Beretta 92 fans, I recognize there are other options.Since you mentioned home defence as a use for your new pistol, I'd like to comment on action types.I strongly prefer DA for our and your use.As we are not highly trained swat team members, I think about my response to a noise in the night.By definition it's dark, i'm somewhat scared,and the adrenalin is pumping as I move around my house w/ my pistol in hand.I DON'T want a manual safety I might forget to release. I DON'T want a light trigger pull I might inadvertently fire. I want that first shot to happen only after a relatively long, somewhat heavy trigger pull. OTOH, at the range I want to shoot mostly SA.So we have a Beretta Elite II w/ CTC laser grips.On this model the safety lever does not lock into an "on safe' position but just decocks the gun. At the range we have to force ouselves to practice DA as it doesn't happen naturally. Shoot til empty,slide locks open,swap in a full mag, release the slide, and shoot. SA all the way,unless we decock on purpose for practice.Good luck!